El Toro Airport Flight demo complaints

WE GOT MORE E-MAIL! (June 5-6, 1999)
More messages arrived overnight, and on Sunday, when we stopped collecting. We've got to stop now and turn our efforts to other tasks. We are overwhelmed by the unsolicited outpour of anti-airport sentiment.
Sorry that a few duplicates slipped in.

Subject: Re: EL TORO BOOSTERS SHOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 15:38:13 -0700 To: Leonard Kranser <editor@eltoroairport> References: 1

the flight tests have only enraged me!!...up to now I have only given a small amount of money to the Safe and Healthy Initiative. besides promoting the anti-airport cause to others.

I would like to give more and to your site. I will be at a OC Board of Surpervisors this month among other things!
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Subject: No on El Toro Airport Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 To: <editor

I say No, No, No.

I am a 41yo 18yr home owner , native Californian, and native local in the flight path, that was hoping to live here forever. The military was not bearable. Now they want to have non-stop flights. NO.

A VOTER: Laguna Niguel, CA 92677
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Subject: Stop the Jets Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 13:02:02 -0700 From: Connie TO List,

How will we live with the noise and we all know about the crashes. When it can't go into an body of water, who will die? It is obvious the people around the flight path will not only have to deal with the noise, loss of property value, but maybe one day their lives. For once report the truth. The voice of the people needs to be heard, not the fat cats in office.
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Subject: Shocked in Laguna Niguel Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 13:17:31 -0700 To List

My husband and I moved here 3 months ago. We had heard the discussions on El Toro and have kept an open mind.....until these tests. Our home is in Monarch Pointe, on top of a hill right off the ocean. The planes may have been flying at 3000 feet above sea level, but as they approached our community, they were closer to 1000 feet. After Friday afternoon, I went into my house and cried. I could not even hear the person standing next to me. Please, please there has to be a more sane and humane way of approaching our future transportation challenges. I urge you to consider other alternatives. The effects to our cities will be devastating.
xxxx Isle Vista Laguna Niguel, CA 92677
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Subject: NO AIRPORT NO AIRPORT NO AIRPORT Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 15:38:13 -0700 From: Chris .To: List
What a total scam this whole thing is.

LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE!

I sat down through all the toll roads, I am not allowing this to happen. Never mind the noise which is too loud at my house. The traffic at the El Toro Y, what a joke. The danger and the dirt. We don't need another airport! Chris xxx xxx Avenue Laguna Beach
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Subject: Re: Runway construction Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 16:32:26 -0700 From: Nick To: Len Kranser <editor References: 1 , 2

Len, This test that the county is conducting does not reflect how real fully loaded aircraft will take off. When I flew KC-130's out of El Toro 20 years ago, we normally used a runway 7 departure. However, when we were at max gross, we took off the safe way...down hill into the prevailing wing. That was a runway 25 departure. This test is a big waste of money, proves nothing and if this does become an airport, I believe that ALPA will demand that runway 25 be the primary departure for safety reasons. Coordination will need to be made with JWA, of course, because there TCA's overlap and that will be cumbersome (unworkable) with so many departures. Answer: close JWA and only use El Toro. Pretty slick!
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Subject: Noise Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 14:57:05 +0000 From: Judy To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

I am a resident in Three Arch Bay and I have been home to witness the planes going overhead during the test flights that have been going on. It is very disturnbing to me how noisty and low these planes have flown, and disruptive they have been to our community and families.
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Subject: The June 4 & 5 Flight Tests Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:54:35 +0100 From: To: <jmittermeier@ceo.hoa.co.orange.ca.us> CC: <editor@eltoroairport.org>, <senator@feinstein.senate.gov>, <second@dist2.co.orange.ca.us>, <ccoad@dist4.co.orange.ca.us>, <tspitzer@dist3.co.orange.ca.us>, <csmith@dist1.co.orange.ca.us>, <twilson@dist5.co.orange.ca.us>, <cwiercioch@ceo.hoa.co.orange.ca.us>

How could you support this? I have lived in Orange County my entire life. Have you no mercy for the people who have already bought homes in South Orange County, for the people who located here because of the peaceful, and family-oriented communities. For the people who have invested sizable amounts of money in these communities? And now, PROPERTY VALUES are already going to fall, simply because of these tests. Can you imagine the damage? NO ONE who has listened to the feedback of the unacceptable noise levels from areas like Foothill Ranch, Aliso Viejo, Laguna Hills etc., will EVER want to buy a house out there. What were you thinking? There will be no place left to go in Orange County. The north and central areas are simply dirty, old and uninviting. The only areas that might be acceptable, will be unaffordable to middle-class, family-driven people like me. Orange County was always about being away from the big city mess that Los Angeles is. Where was the need to become another Los Angeles? I hate LA. If I have to go there on business, I charge extra. How could you do this to the people of Laguna Woods? For them this might be the last stop. What were you thinking? Nothing can justify this. NOTHING!
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Subject: NO EL TORO Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 16:59:12 -0700To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

You've taken the peace and quiet I searched for and found when I moved out to the "boondocks" of Coto. The testing has confirmed without a doubt that the peace of Coto will be lost forever if you open this airport. Between JWA and Ontario which is now very close since the 241 opened, we are more than covered. WE DONT NEED EL TORO!!!
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Subject: El Toro "Air Show" Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:07:08 -0700 To; List
Your El Toro "Air Show" continues to irritate me. I just heard the B737-300 set for a 4:50 p.m. arrival come in for a landing. My home is located approximately 2 1/2 miles to the east. The noise was high pitched and EXTREMELY irritating and offensive. To think you want me to listen to 400 of such noise events per day!

What your "Air Show" is proving is that the noise is very disturbing to a path of homes 3 miles wide on each side of centerline. If you get out your Thomas Guide and draw the map, you will find that the vast majority of south county will be severely noise impacted. No amount of money squandered by the majority on the Board of Supervisors is going to convince me otherwise.
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Subject: Another Complaint Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:32:30 EDT From:

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I understand that you are too busy to respond given the response to the flights, but I offer my comments for the file.

I live in Trabuco Canyon, and spent Saturday morning doing yardwork. I always wear ear protection while using the power mower. (Moldex Pura-Fit to be Tried #6800) with a 31dB noise reduction rating. With the mower off, the east-bound Airbus flight was loud enough to be heard through my hearing protection!!! I realize that this may not be a scientific measurement, but I know loud when I hear it! If I had been involved in a conversation, we would have had to pause to allow the noise level to subside before continuing.

According to the press, the aircraft used on Saturday were supposed to be quieter! Quieter, more powerful aircraft, flying unloaded, leaving a smaller noise footprint, not needing to throttle up -- and still, this amount of noise was generated. The only conclusion that I can draw is that this test is a farce. I only hope that the public backlash from this demonstration will backfire in the faces of the airport proponents.
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Subject: El Toro "Demo" Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:35:01 EDT To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

I have to admit to being somewhat lukewarm about the waste of taxpayer money being wasted on these "Demonstrations". Even though the planes were 1) landing into a headwind (and practically idling in the sky) 2) were practically flying an empty aircraft 3) seemed to be flying in higher than usual 4) and had NO flights during the middle of the night ( which will be 80% of the cargo flights), my neighbors and I are now going to fight the airport alliance tooth and nail. If this was only a taste of what to expect, then we are shocked by what we can really be facing. Let me know what I can to to help!! My neighbors and I were stunned by the 75 to 92 decibel ranges that we endured yesterday and today. It really mad an impression. Maybe it was a good thing after all. Please pass this on to whoever is appropriate.

Laguna Niguel Ca 92677
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Subject: We can't afford to move Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 18:03:58 -0700To: <editor
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Subject: Voter Apathy...Not too Late Yet. Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 18:18:39 -0700 (PDT) To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org
Voter apathy and lack of interest when the original airport proposition was shoved on the ballot by developers and even when we had a second chance to vote later on, really should change now that they have had a taste of this insane ETI plan.

We can vote, en mass and win the hearts and minds of NOC voters also...by offering better alternatives and by threatening their businesses.

The moronic supervisors and the greedy evil developers think this is a slam dunk...but they are so stupid that they have just shot themselves in the foot with this "flight demonstration", even at lower weight and flying higher and slower...even at longer flight intervals people are yelling NO!

Progress...towards what? This airport is progress towards Hell in my opinion.

I don't live under the flight paths and the noise has not been really noticeable, however I have to breathe the air, drive on the highways and live in the environment that would be degraded by an ETI.

We should organize, en mass, and descend on the County Supervisor's meetings with raised fists and verbal abuse. Just who the hell do the three clowns who consider themselves acting for the good of OC think that they are? What kind of "DUH" mentality do they show us?

Very sincerely, Dr. Eugene xxx Mission Viejo
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Subject: Airport News Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:21:21 EDT To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org

Dear OC Board of Supervisors

I live in Laguna Niguel CA., I wasn't sure about the airport going in however, after hearing the noise on many occasions on June 4th and 5th (10:05 A.M., 11:05 A.M.,7:05 P.M., 8:05PM 8:26PM 9:07Pm. June 5TH 4:45 PM and 6:05Pm.. It is one thing to have this test flights an hour apart and it is another thing to have continuous noise every 4 minutes during the day and night, not to mention the effect it has on our air, and our peace quiet airwaves.

Thank You for hearing my voice in the matter Sincerely Sue xxx
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Subject: El Toro Test Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 18:24:56 -0700 From: Jim To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org

What a waste of taxpayers money. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that jet planes make noise...lots of noise. I measured some of the flights passing overhead in Monarch Terrace near the coast at over 84 DB. They tell us this level is no worse than a vacuum cleaner, but our vacuum cleaner doesn't turn itself on every two minutes night and day. We started to hear each flight one to two minutes before before it passed overhead and then heard them for another minute or two as they passed on towards El Toro. With flights projected for every two minutes we will never be without a some level of roaring noise overhead!!

This "test" should be a real eye opener for everyone in Orange County and a black eye for the Supervisors that are pushing for this disaster.
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Subject: Noise Tests Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 21:55:34 -0400 From: David To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

Sometime between 12 and 12:30 pm this afternoon I heard what I thought was thunder. When I went outside I saw beautiful clear skies and realized that what I had heard was an El Toro test flight! The frightening thing is that I live in Irvine, North of Culver - an area that is well outside the flight pattern and is supposed to be unaffected by El Toro air traffic. If I could clearly hear a small, partially loaded jet where I live, the impact of a fully loaded 777 or DC10 (jets favored for cross-country and international flights) is going to devastate South Orange County.
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Subject: Friday and Saturday flight test Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:58:25 -0700 From: "Michael To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>
Gentlemen:

The test this weekend has strengthened our resolve to fight plans to convert El Toro into a commercial airport. While we expected we might hear some noise, we did not expect the planes to be flying almost directly over our home. We simply cannot imagine the intrusion into our lives of planes taking off every six minutes.

We live in Mission Viejo, just north of the lake. We returned home from our daughter's high school graduation at just before noon on Saturday. We were met by a plane flying almost directly overhead. The plane was much larger in the sky than we expected, and much closer to the ground. We are concerned about whether the family will ever have a quiet day with a commercial airport.

Today happened to be a family gathering at our home, with relatives gathered far and wide to celebrate our daughter's high school graduation. As we sat down to eat, despite windows being closed and people talking, we heard the planes. The planes today came half a dozen times, not the every six minutes expected if an airport is allowed to open. The planes today were met by perfect weather, not the kind of cloudy weather that amplifies jet aircraft noise. The planes today were recent model, relatively quiet aircraft, not the noisier planes I understand some of the airlines propose to fly. The planes contained sacks of sand, not thousands of passengers who are likely to contribute to clogging our local streets with cars and polluting our relatively clean air.

What a travesty.
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Subject: Flight Demos Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 20:17:55 -0700 From: Ellen > To: editor

So today was the "quiet" day??? I was not at home yesterday to hear the louder tests, but todays' were louder than I want happening on a day-in, day-out basis here. Not only that, but huge jetliners taking off tend to mar the view as well. I recorded a couple of samples (attached), so you can hear what it sounded like here in Foothill Ranch:
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Subject: I live in the flight path Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:27:33 -0700 From: To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>,

I live in Laguna Hills, and as the flight demos occurred, we found that we were closer than we thought. The aircraft came right next to our balcony. You could practically see the pilot in the aircraft.

I am extremely angered that our county officials would want to ruin our quality of life with this airport. The marines made wonderful neighbors. The flights were few and far between, except during a time of military action. I totally support the military, and have never been bothered by their flights, but for commerical and freight aircraft to fly over every minute is unacceptable.

I lived in Los Angeles for most of my life. We had friends who lived in Inglewood prior to LAX becoming an international airport. It was an upper middle class neighborhood. Today it is just a hood, a slum with high crime. This happened in only a numbwer of years. Airports and people do not make good neighbors.

Orange County right now is booming economically. Thre is no vacancy and prices are rising. High tech jobs are moving into the area. These are the jobs that Orange County needs, not airport workers, hotels and strip clubs. Airport jobs are not high paying jobs, except as they are unionized. We need professional jobs to maintain our lifestyle.

My husband and I will work very hard to prevent the airport. At some point, the county will have to see the errors of their ways.
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Subject: El Toro Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 20:45:58 -0700 To: ListTo Whom It May Concern, is anyone listening!!!!!!!!!!!!! I live in Mission Viejo and not even under the proposed flight paths. The engines rumbles and roars were very noticable even though we are considered not in any type of noise zone. Please don't ruin our tranquil lives. Not only the noise but the pollution will be backed up against the mountains just like Ontario Ca. I know this is big business but what will that be to you when you are gone and others get to suffer with your decision! Sincerely,
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Subject: El Toro Airport Testing Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:48:52 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,
We live in Aliso Viejo and after the two day tet program is complete, all we can say it is far worse than what we expected. The worst offender was the B-747 whih was so loud I could not carry a conversation in my housr without shouting. The mere fact that the county is planning an airport in a populated area with many families who are trying to raise their children, it shows the county supervisors in favor of an airport are going to leave a leagcy that includes runing many people lives and poluting a beautiful part of Orange County.
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Subject: El Toro Flights Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 20:56:41 -0700

I live in Laguna Niguel and the noise from the planes reminded me of when I had a cottage across from a SAC Base back in the 60s. It's awful and it means nothing but bad news for most of the residents. I have not heard one good report about the benefits of this airport. Except someone will make a lot of money if it goes through.
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Subject: Te Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 10:52:39 -0700 From: David
st FlightsFlights over Kite Hill in Laguna Niguel were clearly audible- even though we are several miles from the airport. The 747's on Friday were particularly loud and emitted whistling noises. Since the planes were empty, flying at higher than normal altitudes, in glide patterns and only arriving sporadically rather than every two or three minutes, we can only shudder to think what the actual airport scenario would be like.
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Subject: The Noise Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 11:02:14 -0700To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

I live in Lake Forest in Serrano Park, the tract closest to the proposed airport, and under the takeoff path for the east runway. The test flights this weekend proved many things to me.

1. The noise level was equal to that of the Navy jet fighters, and absolutely unacceptable on a 24-7 basis. 2. A commercial airport will completely destroy the quality of life in South County in general and Lake Forest in particular. 3. The old concept of "Government by the People, for the People" is a complete sham. The Board of Supervisors is not responding to the demands of the people, but blatantly putting forth their own agenda using public funds.

I do believe some good will come of this weekend's tests. Many of my neighbors were either unsure or ambivalent above the impact of this airport. Today they have seen and heard the future and are angry and ready to take a stand. If anything, these demonstrations have served as a wake-up call to this community. We have just begun to fight.
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Subject: El Toro Airport Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 21:30:28 -0700 From: Eileen To: List

While sitting in my backyard in RSM I was bombarded with noise on Saturday afternoon. The planes only tested over our area 4 times that day. I can't begin to imagine what it would be like to have them take off every few minutes. PLEASE don't let this airport go in! Eileen xxx
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Subject: Comment on El Toro Airport Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:35:37 -0700 From: "Bob To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>

I don't even know where to start. The prospect of an International Airport in El Toro is horrific.

Just to list a few concerns:

1) Traffic - It was not long ago that we dealt with construction to help ease the traffic at the El Toro "Y." The addition of an international airport would completely negate any benefit that was realized by this "upgrade." Citizen's of the surrounding cities would be subjected to the type of traffic that is typical at LAX. In other words, we will not only have traffic jams at the "Y" during "rush hour," but we would experience this type of traffic all day, all week.

2) Smog - Saddleback Valley will become the "Valley of the Smog" if we were to have the volume jet traffic in and out of here that is being planned for. One of the primary reasons that many people have moved to South County from other areas (distance from L.A.) will now be destroyed, and we will again be forced to move further south.

3) Noise - After the "testing" for noise that was done over this past weekend, I am convinced that the solitude of South County will also be a thing of the past. The quiet that is a part of South County is just another piece of the big picture that makes/made it such a pleasant place to live.

The last issue is purely speculation based upon some observations on my part, but it seems that when large airports are built, it is inevitable that the area goes the way of places such as those surrounding LAX. Without going into to much detail, what I mean by this is that the neighborhood ends up over crowded, under maintained and just has an all around "aura" of being filthy.

I realize that there are many people who seem to like living in those kind of areas, and that's fine, but it's going to be a real shame to turn South County into one of them.

Aside from all of this, I have other selfish reasons for not wanting the airport, such as the beautiful view I have in my front yard being filled with the sight of jumbo jets. My front yard overlooks Aliso Viejo/Laguna Hills, which means the planes coming from the South will cause my view to be turned in to nothing more than a "road" that planes "drive" by on.

It will truly be a shame for South County to become a proverbial "part of L.A."
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Subject: Eventually

It may take a while but I'm confident that, at some stage the FAA, in its wisdom, will come forward with the real facts regarding arrival and departure routes should the commercialization of El Toro ever come to pass.

The present exercise of these so-called noise tests is a sham and sad waste of taxpayer funds. Even worse is that the money comes from John Wayne revenues. These funds could have gone into a runway extension at JWA which would have improved the noise situation at Newport Beach.

The only winners in this fight will be the lawyers.

My background? Former pilot and retired FAA employee who knows which runway to use. Answer? The safest one.
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Subject: Commercial Test flights 6/4/99 & 6/5/99 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 00:58:13 EDT

We live in the southern end of RSM. Every flight was very loud, whether landing or taking off.

Why hasn't the County establish a reliable means to correctly tally all the complaints? I can't imagine the value of a full mailbox!! And the results are probably going to be published as "reliable" statistics. I think I wasn't alone finding it almost impossible to follow the schedule. I think this was specifically part of the demonstration, so anti-airport people will look like crazed by lodging complaints about false departures or arrivals!! There is always small aircraft (and a few larger ones) traffic over Irvine, that one could easily pin it on a schedule test flight, and thus be rebuffed.
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Subject: el toro flight tests Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:47:22 -0700 To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>,
I just sent the following to both OC Register and LA Times, please add this to your other emails about this weekends flight test sham! ***********************
Dear Editor:

This weekend's test flights at El Toro were a sham! One of the main reasons for having these test was to understand noise impact on surrounding areas. How can this be judged when there are no means for lodging a noise complaint? The only way to lodge a complaint was with the El Toro Reuse Authority (pro airport); and how can anyone possibly log complaints when one was asked to leave a message and the voicemail system was conveniently 'full' after the first flight on Friday? Further, who knows how many complaints were allowed to be lodged before the voicemail system became full?

As a resident effected by the take-offs, how can any public official or agency say, with sincerity, that these tests were run in a fair manner? When you don't allow feedback to be properly recorded, to me, this just reinforces that the majority of our County Supervisors are in now way interested in hearing true public opinion--just getting the results they want to get. I hope these flights are a wake-up call to the public to get involved now before it's too late.
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Subject: I won't raise my kids here! Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 23:21:04 -0700 From: Steven To: List

This airport cuts through some of the finest new neighborhoods with young children in the state of California. Not only do these jets create unbearable constant noise pollution but also create unstable communities where good people just won't live.

My name is Walter xxx. Our home is at xxxxx, Rancho Santa Margarita. We are half a mile from the Melinda Heights Elementary School, and approximately six miles due East from the El Toro Marine base.

My neighbors and I spotted and logged several test flights using a Radio Shack sound level meter. All flights flew directly over our neighborhood. Friday's flights were significantly lower than Saturday's, probably due to the weather. Here are the results:

Friday, 6/4/1999
~07:30 pm This one was spotted by my neighbors, hence the guess on the time and no dB level. The plane flew directly over our end of the block as it turned South. It was so low that they could read the lettering on it. It was so loud that they could not carry on a conversation until the plane had passed.
~08:00 pm The plane came towards us then turned South at the cul-de-sac of our block. It was quite low and I measured +70 dB on my meter.
09:35 pm +70 dB

Saturday, 6/5/1999

All of the flights turned early and were heading South as they passed over our block. Although the planes were substantially higher, they were still very noisy.

11:55 am +72 dB 12:51 pm +70 dB 02:50 pm +72 dB 03:03 pm +76 dB 04:13 pm +72 dB 05:40 pm +68 dB 06:06 pm +68 dB

There was a noisy jet flying over our block at 03:24 pm. I was inside and didn't actually see it but my meter registered +70 dB at the window. It could have been a jet from a different airport so I'm keeping it separate from the other sightings which I know for certain were part of the demo.

If there were ever any doubts before, they've all dissolved. We've GOT to stop this thing. ------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Results of El Toro Airport noise demonstration Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 05:44:05 -0700

The noise levels in Northwood (Irvine) on Saturday afternoon were unacceptable. Because we have a noisy neighbor, we have already installed double-pane gas-filled windows and three fountains in our backyard to mask noise. Even with our windows closed and fountains running, we could clearly hear take-offs to the North while watching the Nicks/Pacers game on TV in our family room. This noise level 24 hours per day, 7 days per week would be extremely disruptive and unacceptable. It's the amount of noise that wakes our baby up at night, prevents us from sleeping, and causes our neighborhood to call the police.

Do not build an international airport at El Toro.
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Subject: No airport Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 06:27:00 -0700 From: To: editor

I want NO airport at El Toro.

A voting citizen,
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Subject: El Toro Demo Flights Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 20:53:11 -0700 From: Mark
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Today I was doing volunteer work in Wood Canyon, a semi-Wilderness area. I go there often as it's a wonderful, relaxing and quiet place for a bike ride or to simply walk.

The Wood Canyon semi-Wilderness area is roughly a five (5) minute bike ride from my home in Laguna Niguel. In five (5) minutes I find myself away from the noise, congestion and pressures of city life. At various times of the year the fragrant native vegetation is nothing short of a slice of heaven.

Needless to say I was appalled today during the time I participated in the volunteer trail maintenance which took place today, June 5, 1999, between 1:00pm & 4:00pm. Aircraft appeared to be flying approach directly overhead.

As an airline pilot for a major carrier with thousands of hours experience, I am upset and angry with the low altitude (AGL -- Above Ground Level) of the approaches which took place today Saturday June 5, 1999.

I suspect that due to the reason for these "demo flights," each crew was briefed as to the importance of flying at or above the glide path. Still, from a human standpoint, the glide slope places aircraft at too low an altitude in the area of Wood Canyon semi-Wilderness park, Laguna Niguel and Aliso Niguel.

Note my son attends Aliso Viejo High School (AVHS) which is adjacent to Wood Canyon semi-Wilderness area. Our children's education is vital to the future of not only Orange County but our nation as a whole.

Our youth deserves, are entitled to, and as county supervisors it's your responsibility to ensure the highest quality learning environment possible. A wise and unselfish plan that attains quality education for Orange County youth is the single most cost effective action we, as a community, can make.

The proposed El Toro airport is not only a selfish plan, but also is detrimental to the high standards our community school systems currently have and the outstanding results we've archived so far.

Yet, it seems, the majority of the board of supervisors chooses to ignore those they represent -- residents of Orange County.

Instead several county supervisors selfishly support corporate money and participate in underhanded, premeditated, organized plans that -- in the past -- have conspired to hold key voting on El Toro airport issues when the county supervisors who represent The People and oppose the El Toro airport are out of town on business.

I experience these blatant actions of the three county supervisors as appalling, revolting, and in my mind clearly dishonest.

As a tax paying, voting resident of Orange County and an airline pilot, I strongly oppose the continued squandering of additional tax money in attempt to develop an airport at El Toro. If the corporations that desire an airport at El Toro (FedEx comes to mind immediately) wish to spend their money, fine.

I'm angered -- no, outraged -- at the Orange County board of supervisors irresponsible decision to use The People's hard earned tax money to fund the promotion of corporate interests and desires.
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Subject: WEEKEND FLIGHT TESTS Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:02:21 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,
We live in Portola Hills and, although we are completely against an international airport going in at the El Toro Marine Base for many reasons, we were curious about the flight tests scheduled for Friday and Saturday. Now that they have been completed, we find it difficult to make much of an assessment with the sporadiac and light weight tests that were conducted. The reduced load capacity and the frequency of these airplanes certainly would not give an accurate representation of the noise level and amount of planes during a day or night. However, even if the the airport traffic were at the level conducted it would be very disturbing with a constant noise factor that would be irritating. Those of us who located ourselves in a planned community did not select this beautiful area with an International Airport in our back yards in mind. Nor did we, by any stretch of the imagine, think that an International Airport could be railroaded into our backyards by politics!
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Subject: The El Toro flight demonstrations . Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 08:20:32 -0700 From: "Kevin

The only thing proven by the flight demonstrations is the pro airport county people continue to believe their own propaganda, while ignoring facts. Ellen Cox Call stated " No aircraft will ever depart to the west". It has been stated many many time that FAA Regulations state the pilot makes the decision on which runway an aircraft departs from.

Commercial airports operate under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR). Which are safer and more efficient than Visual Flight rules. All IFR procedures must be approved by the FAA. The operations planned for the flight demonstrations were VFR. Since the FAA has not approved the flight paths the county was forced to have the demonstrations operate under VFR conditions. On June 3, 1999 John Wayne Airport Manager of Airside Operations, issued a notice to all airports and flight facilities within 50 miles of El Toro that VFR operations were going to take place at El Toro.

Typical operations at commercial airports take place 24 hours a day. Courtney Wiercioch stated "we did our best to give the residents an idea of the level of noise generated by typical planes expected..." International flights are mostly flown by 747 with arrivals and deprtures during all hours of the day and night. Why didn't Courtney plan the 747 arrival and take off for around 2 - 3 AM? That one flight would have given a true reading of the noise factor of 24 hour operations. Also, by not having operations after 10 PM the county, avoided the noise penalties associated CNEL computation. You can bet the county will try to use the data gathered to compute a new 65 CNEL even thought the data used to compute it was not a true sample.

The flight demonstrations appeared to be just what we supposed "south county, no airport, no way radicals", knew they would be, a farce. A farce forced upon us by the NIMBY Newport Beach backed, let's close John Wayne no matter what, politicians.
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Subject: Loud in West Niguel Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 08:45:41 -0700 From: To: editor
I was awaken this morning (Saturday June 5, 1999) at 6:15am with planes flying overhead. This Rattled my home and the noise was horrendous. The El Toro Airport is not necessary and ridiculous. It’s a great idea that you voted for the test, as it shows that that Orange County will be adversely affected if this airport goes through. The noise is obtrusive and invasive, so much so that we can not hear ourselves speak over the noise. Look at LAX and look at what has happened to that area.

For Gods sake, please do not let this airport go through.
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Subject: Re: EL TORO BOOSTERS SHOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 08:52:40 -0700 , "Leonard Kranser" <editor> References: 1
I live in Trabuco Canyon and I had no idea how loud the airplane noise would be. We used to live in Northwoods in Irvine--our home bordered Jeffrey and Bryan and we moved here two and ahalf years ago to escape that racket, we thought. We never dreamed that jumbo jets would head for Saddleback mountain and then make a sharp turn. We will not be able to live here with that noise. They can discuss insulating our homes--but since most of the homes are relatively new, that won't do anything. What are they going to do about the noise outside. I don't understand how a county could allow a beautiful airport like John Wayne to be mothballed, especially when we owe millions of dollars on its construction. But that is the board of supervisors who put us into bankruptcy with their stupidity, who control the board. Simth would have been sued if he had been a CEO for any corporation!! I fly out of John Wayne three or four times a year and it's practically empty. I don't know how some of those little airport shops survive. And there's plenty of seating available. What a waste of money. But I guess those rich people in Newport Beach could care less since it's not their money!! All they care about is shutting down that airport and getting the noise out of their backyard. Well I don't feel the least bit sorry for them. They own multi-million dollar homes and if they don't like, why don't they move elsewhere. The rest of us poor people can't just pick up and move. Orange County will become just like LA--is that we want here?
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Subject: PROTEST Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 09:18:40 -0700 From: "Dennis To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>, <

The flight tests made me realize the adverse impact the airport will have on Lake Forest and surrounding communities. I believe many people came to that conclusion June 4 & 5. Have any of the anti-airport organizations made plans for protest??
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Subject: El Toro - The final sham by OC Supervisors this Century Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 11:51:29 -0700 From: Robert

My name is Rob xxx and I live at 4 xxxxx Drive in Aliso Viejo, CA. My phone number is 949xxxx I would like to comment on the El Toro flight demonstrations held yesterday and today.

The noise is a nightmare - I am not a "zero tolerance" kind of guy, or a "NIMBY" as some might put it. I am not a South County elitist either. I am a normal, married guy with kids. After living in Riverside for 8 years, and having my car stolen from my driveway and my wifes car broken into on seperate occassions, we decided to move back to where I was raised, here in Orange County, CA. I lost $40k on the sale of that home in order to move to the beautiful coastal and hillside area I live in now. I thought it was worth it to provide my family a better, safer life, quieter life. While the jets at the Marine base were kind of cool, I knew they were going to be moving out one day.

I live on the top a little hill in AV, known as Laguna Audoban. I have to tell you, having commercial aircraft flying what seems to be not too much higher than eye level during flight is a little frightening. And it is very loud - I have heard reports reanging from 10 - 100db. And that is with the pilots coming in higher than usual, with their engines on idle to reduce the noise from absolutely deafening down to merely unbearable. Oh, and by the way - do you know anyone who tried to call into lodge a noise complaint? If you do, they will tell you that there was no way to do so. No one was manning the phones and the voice mailboxes were full, so no more complaints can be lodged! Cute trick by the County.

The flight schedule is also a farce - the number of planes in the two day demo represent the quantity of flights of only 2hrs of the proposed actual operations schedule. I asked County CEO Jan Mittermeir about this and she said that the demo was intended to represent actual flight ops, but that it was just so residents could experience the noise for themselves. What she is really saying is that the demo is not intended to be realistic - ergo - it's not a demo! I respectfully differ with Ms. Mittermeir - there is noise and there is frequency. If you are going to do a demo, do it right or not at all - do it for 24hrs with flights every 3 minutes since that is what is being proposed for actual flight ops... that would be an acceptable demonstration and would surely allow the voters to have enough data to make an informed decision.

But hey, back to me and my family. Will we move? I am not planning on it - becuase this demo has cemented my opposition to this. I fully intend to fight this thing. I do not intend to have my property values shot down. I like it here and the OC Board of Supervisors arent going to mess this up for us. The one good thing this demo has done is rallied the opposition to the airport-use initiatives - even the North County folks are involved now that they know their quality of life and property values are impacted. This is about my money that I have worked my tail off trying to be taken by the wealthy land and business developers who are lining the pockets of the OC Supervisors favotite special interest groups. Theis is about good versus bad. What side are you on.

Thanks for reading and posting this letter.
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El Toro flight tests will allay anxiety
June 6, 1999

George Serniak of Monarch Beach said in an article published Thursday that residents in many areas of south Orange County will not be subjected to noise from the proposed El Toro noise-test demonstration flights [Opinion, The Orange Grove, June 3]. Indeed they were not, and neither are these same residents likely to be much affected by noise when the airport at El Toro is operating at full capacity.

That's because the county has made every effort to plan the airport so that flights can take advantage of undeveloped land and areas where noise-sensitive development has been restricted for years.

Serniak also claims that airline pilots do not necessarily fly prescribed flight paths. Yet we have a good example right here, at John Wayne Airport, that pilots mostly do follow prescribed flight paths and mitigation procedures based on agreements signed with airport authorities.

(They also follow flight paths for safety and navigational reasons, and many communities around the country have agreements which have been developed to mitigate noise for residents.)

It's unfortunate that anti-airport extremists have vastly exaggerated the likely impact of the airport at El Toro, causing unnecessary anxiety and stress to residents. For example, to suggest that arrivals "will blanket the majority of south county residential areas" is very misleading.

Serniak says that the noise-test flights, by using cleverly planned flight paths " ... will be disturbing as few residents as possible." Well, yes. Again, he is quite right. That's why the county planned the flight paths that way — and they are the same flight paths that are planned for the future airport.

Did the board decide to do these tests to deceive the residents of Orange County? That's quite an accusation, verging on the slanderous.

On the contrary, quite simply, the majority of the Board of Supervisors voted to hold flight demonstrations to provide the only practical way to answer the question the county gets asked most frequently: What will a plane actually sound like, and where will it be as it flies to and from the new airport?

The county planned to fly one of the heaviest, loudest planes, the Boeing 747, as part of the demonstration (anti-airport extremists said we wouldn't dare).

We plan to load the planes with sandbags, so that their weights are representative of actual flying conditions (anti-airport activists said we wouldn't do that).

We planned about 50 operations, mostly at times when we know people will be at home (anti-airport activists said we would have only a few flights each day and none at night.)

In other words, we did our best to give residents an idea of the level of noise generated by typical planes expected to fly into and out of El Toro.

And we run the risk that the noise levels will be perceived as much more of a nuisance than they would be under normal circumstances. After all, people were out on the streets, listening for noise. That's hardly typical. But it is the kind of risk we are willing to take in the interests of providing as much information as possible.

Recently, we provided preliminary scientific data to show that there are no homes and no schools in the 65 CNEL noise impact area as defined by state and federal authorities (by comparison, there are 31,335 homes and 36 schools in the LAX noise footprint; and 1,360 homes and 5,900 people in the San Francisco noise footprint).

The 65 CNEL metric has been in use for decades as the way to determine the relative impact of noise on residents and has proved a reliable indicator.

But we know scientific data can't tell the whole story.

In fact, anti-airport extremists insisted that hearing a plane overhead was the only way to judge noise accurately. In a nutshell, that's why we conducted real-time flight demonstrations.

Courtney C. Wiercioch
Ms. Wiercioch is program manager for the county's El Toro Master Development Program.
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Subject: Stop the Airport Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:58:57 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,
Stop the Airport at El Toro!!!!!

Not only will the quality of life be degraded in Irvine, but also in every other community in South County from Dana Point to Anaheim Hills to Coto de Caza to Newport Beach. This is an atrocity that must be stopped. There is no comparison between the marine jets and commercial airliners....400 flights per month to 800 per day!! Please don't insult our intelligence. I fear for the county in the future when it becomes a rundown slum area. I fear for my children living in the environment that this airport will bring.

What a 2 million dollar joke the flight demonstration is!!! No planes taking off on schedule....it is difficult at best to determine if noise is a factor or not. I can say that the 3 planes that did fly directly overhead were EXTREMELY loud. One of these jets woke me from a deep sleep late Friday night. Let the board of supervisors vote to have these jets fly over their own homes 800 times per day. This airport is an issue of greed and greed alone with the decisions being made by people who will not be directly impacted.
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STOP THE EL TORO AIRPORT Subject: June 4 & 5 airport testing Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:59:11 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

I live on the lake in Mission Viejo and was startled by the 747 that flew overhead Friday morning at approx. 7:30 am. The plane did not land at El Toro and I could not "see" it but the noise inside my house was deafening. When I called to complain it was hard to get through, but with persistence and much calling around I was told this plane only passed by and did not land. Will future "wave offs" also go over my house? The future for South County is looking dim if this is what the new millennium has to offer.

Todays noise has also been very disturbing and we have been indoors with double paned windows closed and the noise level is shocking. Outdoors it is incomprehensible to think our lives will be interrupted constantly by this pollution. Isn't Orange County first suppose to be the place to live? No amount of sunshine can compete with peace and quiet-people can't live under these conditions.

I also wonder who this airport is being built for? Many of Orange County's residence to the North will be more economically served by Ontario or Los Angeles. We who are closest to this proposal don't want it. If Newport Beach is so hot for an international airport let's expand John Wayne, put the freeway under the runway to allow for the "big" guys and do away with the time limitations. Let's try that first-the economics make sense-it will be cheaper to expand John Wayne. Once this is accomplished I believe it will surprise many at how many people still won't use these expensive alternatives to flying out of LA or Ontario.

Also why isn't San Diego looking into this-they don't have an international airport-they need it before anyo
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Subject: Test flights Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 15:12:08 -0700 From: Frank To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org

One should specify what one is to build, built to those specs, and then test to the specs. This set of "Demonstration Flights" is flawed from the start. One of the key things about any specification, is the list of ASSUMPTIONS. For the proposed El Toro Intl. A/P, no set of specs on airplanes, their capabilities, and their loads was created or at least made available to the general public. In this case, assumptions included types of planes expected to be available when (IF) the a/p opens. Flight characteristics must be specified which include sound levels for given loading of specific airplane models and engines. It is well known that a large percentage of airplanes leaving John Wayne can only fly 60 - 70% full because to fly with more passengers, their associated luggage, and the fuel to carry them, would cause serious noise pollution which would exceed noise specifications. There's that word again - specifications.

The stories in both the Times and the Register indicate the the noise monitoring stations were sort of put down wherever they were without any specifications and without any system engineering to determine their location. The data recorded from such placement is bogus at best!

To fly planes that are not expected to be flown by anticipated carriers and with only 30% loads is a horribly unrealistic action that couldn't possibly meet the specs, should they exist. 30% loads are unprofitable for any airline and, hence, are not realistic.

The results from this test should not and cannot be used for ANY planning for any airport at El Toro MCAS. Instead, the sounds of the Millennium Plan sound pretty good to me.
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Subject: El Toro Noise Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 15:56:12 -0700 From: > To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>,

Checking in from Monarch Beach (under the NO Noise Footprint)...NOT!!

We have heard jets CLEARLY through CLOSED windows all day during Southern Arrival and Easterly Departure and these are the quiet aircraft! We can imagine that the noise generated closer to El Toro is unbearable.

Why are we even discussing this airport? Hasn't John Wayne Airport been established for over 20 years? Why do we need a new one? It seems like many more homes are affected by an Airport at El Toro rather than John Wayne.
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Subject: my note Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 16:02:18 -0700 From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org, a
To the Honorable Supervisors of Orange County, (ccoad@dist4.co.orange.ca.us, second@dist2.co.orange.ca.us, tspitzer@dist3.co.orange.ca.us, csmith@dist1.co.orange.ca.us, twilson@dist5.co.orange.ca.us)

While I do respect the work you perform on behalf of the county, I must make myself clear on one point.

In the early evening of Friday, June 4, my normal peaceful evening in my home in Laguna Niguel was shattered with the thunderous noise of a giant commercial airliner passing overhead.

This is extremely upsetting to me and my neighbors. We have SLAVED and TOILED to "make it" into one of the better communities and areas for the express purpose of peace and quiet.

Do you not recognize that quality of life is the paramount concern of people in these surrounding communities? I cannot imagine what lunatic would put something like this in place with flight paths over Laguna Woods, a retirement community, as well.

This is completely UNACCEPTABLE and totally OUTRAGEOUS.

For God's sake, make it a giant park where people can run and roam and play with their families, children, their friends and relatives, and expand Irvine Spectrum business and Irvine Spectrum entertainment which contribute to and do not debase the environment.

It is these uses that will make Orange County a success.

El Toro as airport is not needed, not appreciated, and wholly unacceptable.
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Subject: Noise Tests Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 16:10:39 -0700
This is the first chance I have had to actually sit down to write my comments regarding the noise tests June 4 and 5. At first I was not amused by three of the Board of Supervisors voting to spend my hard earned tax dollars on air noise tests. I have changed my mind and actually want to thank the three north county supervisors for approving the monies. These jet takeoffs have proven without a doubt in my mind and I presume many others the jets are REALLY!!!!!LOUD!!!!!!!! At a shade after 3p.m. and 3:20pm today (June 5) a jet took off both times that I could barely have a simple conversation with my wife. It reminded me of when we have travel to LAX to take a flight. My wife and I can only imagine the constant commercial flights out of El Toro, not to mention the cargo flights that will inevitably be scheduled as well. Right now (3:50p.m.) I can hear a jet fly over my house. I can understand why Dana Rorbacher doesn't mind the noise, HE DOESN'T LIVE IN SOUTH ORANGE COUNTY!!!!!!!!! Just wonder what his opinion would be if he lived in one of the areas where the takeoffs and landings are taking place. AND this is ONLY a TEST!!!! We can envision commercial and cargo flights 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Noise coupled with more traffic would greatly impact my family's quality of life. No thanks!!!!! I also wonder the loading factor on the jets? Does this test also have the factors of weight (passengers, luggage, cargo, etc) that a NORMAL flight would entail. The jets are loud enough, but to add weight would increase the noise factor. Count our five family votes AGAINST any airport being developed at El Toro!!!!!!!!!

Richard & Francine xxxx Foothill Ranch
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Subject: El Toro Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 16:16:17 -0700 From: CINDY

I live in Aliso Viejo and witnessed the demo flights over my house. The noise and visual effects are completely unacceptable. Already my block has 5 "for sale" signs up. I hope there will not be a panic selling streak. Should we all ask the County to buy our homes? I am a pilot and know the rules of the sky. From my vantage point, it appeared that the planes were flying lower than legally acceptable over populated terrain. I have volunteered to collect signatures for the "Safe and Healthy Communities Initiative. I hope everyone signs it.
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Mail-For: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org> Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 14:40:40 -0700 From: Subject: (Noise at El Toro

I was really hoping that the noise would be less than as expected.

Its as bad as I expected and I don't know what we are going to do should the airport become a reality.

Northwood, Irvine Resident
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Mail-For: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org> From: "Doug Subject: Flight Demonstrations Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 14:27:12 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5,

Dear Team,
The Orange County Board of Supervisors has completed their flight demonstrations. For a cool $1.3 Million, we now have evidence that airplanes are loud. I listened to the airplanes arrive directly over Oak Grove Elementary School . We could not hear ourselves think. How in the world are the children in the school supposed to hear their teacher? The number of flights was ridiculously low, and did very little to provide an example of what life would be like living next door to an El Toro Airport. Imagine a constant stream of airplanes, 24 hours per day. I tried to call the County, only their voice mailbox was full. Nothing was done to prepare for public feedback. This only provides further evidence of the Board's practice of operating under non-disclosure. I can not wait to hear the Board report that they received very little noise complaints.

The County has previously described intentions to begin air cargo flights as soon as possible. There is no way that they can legally begin air cargo until the complete analysis and process has been completed for an international airport. If the County continues to push forward in violation of due process, they had better be prepared for a class-action lawsuit of biblical proportions.

The continued reference to "huge" noise buffers surrounding the proposed El Toro airport is meaningless. These buffers are based on the absurd statistic of average noise levels. Averaging noise over a 24 hour period is of little value. This is a completely irresponsible and insensitive attempt to diminish opposition to an airport at El Toro. The real problem is constant exposure to high noise levels, interrupted only by scheduled noise well above acceptable levels.

Experts acknowledge that constant noise as quiet as 65 dB (about average conversational levels) can have an effect on stress, sleep patterns and learning. The longer you are exposed to a damaging level, the greater will be the eventual hearing loss. There is a relationship between how long you are exposed to noise and the damage done. For every 3 dB increase in noise exposure, the damage doubles. For example, exposure to 85 dB for 40 hours a week is the same as being exposed to 88 dB for only 20 hours, 91 dB for 10 hours, 94 dB for 5 hours, 97 dB for 2.5 hours, and just over one hour each week at 100 dB. Local studies have shown that considerable numbers of homes in neighborhoods surrounding El Toro are located within the 64 dB zone. This 1 decibel difference from the 65 dB unacceptable level is not statistically significant, and will provide legitimate grounds for lawsuits. The County will be held responsible for hearing loss, stress and learning deficiencies.

On Saturday, The Register quoted a number of airport supporters who felt that the noise was not so bad, as long as the planes were not flying over their homes. These people have no concern for how their actions impact others. This is sadly representative of prevailing attitudes in our society.
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From: Mail-For: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:23:56 EDT Subject: Complaint!! To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

Please add my e-mail and name to your list of complaints! I live in Laguna Niguel. The level of noise by these flights is simply ridiculous. I think our county supervisors should have a show on television based on America's Dumbest Criminals - they should call it the America's Dumbest Supervisors. Please give me more information on how I can contribute to stop this stupid plan. I believe not only we need to concentrate on stopping the plan, but also we need to investigate the motives of every supervisor and sue them, if possible. Maybe they are not as dumb as they seem. Best regards, Ken Farah
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Mail-For: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org> Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 14:35:01 -0800 From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org, amdano@yahoo.com Subject: EL TORO AIRPORT

WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT IT IS TO KNOW THAT ENOUGH PEOPLE VOTED TO TURN THIS BEAUTIFULL AREA OF SOUTH ORANGE COUNTY INTO THE """FILTH""" THAT ARE NOW THE NEIGHBORHOODS AROUND L.A.X.!!!!

I VOTE TO HAVE THE PLANES LAND AND TAKE OFF OVER THE HOMES OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO SO BADLY NEEDED AN AIRPORT AT EL TORO!!!!

IT'S COMFORTING TO SEE SO MANY PEOPLE SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THE AIRPORT BUT.....AREN'T WE REACTING TO THIS DECISION A BIT TOO LATE????? IS THERE ANYTHING WE CAN DO AT THIS POINT TO STOP THE DESTRUCTION OF SOUH ORANGE COUNTY?????

I LIVE NEAR MISSION VIEJO HIGH SCHOOL AND THE NOISE LEVELS ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE.
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To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4

I would like to send a message to the three pro-airport supervisors stating that though they spent a lot of our funds for the two day flight demo stunt they aided in showing to our undecided neighbors the noise and the overpowering effect that these behemoths of the sky have on the unknowing population below. The multiple flights as proposed will have a devasting noise level (& polution seeding) for all below and near by. The cyclic noise peaks every few minutes apart no one should be allowed to bear. All my neighbors are now vehemently in the anti-airport camp. NO JETS Mr & Mrs V A xxxx Laguna Niguel, Ca 92677
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Subject: Noise in Mission Viejo Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:22:48 -0700 From: "Mike
It's Saturday, 12:15 PM and I just heard a roar to our north -- apparently the A300 is departing -- and hopefully, after today, we will never have to listen to that again.

We are located near La Paz and Marguerite.

We do not support the El Toro airport.
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Subject: Demo flights Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:18:12 -0700 From:> To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>,

Hi We live in Northwood in Irvine. I've been hearing planes all Friday and Saturday from within the house. I was in my backyard at 12:15AM Saturday and heard one of the planes either take off or land. The noise was unbearable and I can only imagine how bad it will be if it last 24 hours 7 days a week. I live two miles from the flight path (and when the county eventually re-orients the runway to be parallel to Interstate 5, which they'll no doubt do after FAA pressure - the classic bait-and-switch maneuver - we'll be right in the flight path) and I am sure that the noise will be infinitely worse. I would like to know understand the purpose of these demo flights - apparently it is to show us south county people that these planes are not noisy. Well, now that the flights are happening and the county has actually shown that the planes are, in fact, pretty noisy, what next? Will they now shelve the airport plans? What was the purpose of these flights? If these demos did anything for me, they've made me more resolved to fight the airport to the fullest. Sincerely
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Subject: El Toro Airport Tests/June 5 Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 12:45:51 -0800 From: Carol To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

Please be advised that I live at xxx Blackfin Ave., Irvine in the Northwood Village (corner of Bryan and Culver). I am commenting about the noon flight today in that it was easily heard by me. This is an accomplishment in that I am hearing impaired and we have double panen windows (although two windows were open).

Additionally, when I was at the Von's Market in Northwood (Yale and Irvine Blvd.) many shoppers were commenting about the noise these planes were making. These same people were standing in line, waiting to sign the petitions set forth in front of the Von's market.

I do not want to even think about the continual noise that these planes will make when they are filled with pasengers or cargo when they are landing and taking off all day and even at 4 AM and 11 PM. Because of my disability in needing a good night's sleep, I will be forced to find a way to eliminate this airport which I have done by way of my signing the petition to put a halt to those supervisors who want to cram this project down our throat. Maybe Garden Grove would be a better site for those in North County who really want this airport and those in Los Angeles County who live near the LAX Airport to move since we given the impression they believe living near an airport is so great.
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Subject: Test Noise Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:49:58 -0700 From: > To: <editor>

The test flight north last night at 11:20 was excessive for nighttime tranquillity, and the thought that this is past JWa curfew time is really maddening. Lets try some test flights at that time out of JWA, too!!

Northwood
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Subject: The El Toro Flight test Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 13:46:51 +0100 From: John

I could almost see the whites of the pilots eyes from my bedroom window.

Anybody want to buy a nice house?
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SHOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 15:38:13 -0700 From: To: Leonard Kranser <editor> References: 1

the flight tests have only enraged me!!...up to now I have only given a small amount of money to the Safe and Healthy Initiative. besides promoting the anti-airport cause to others.

I would like to give more and to your site. I will be at a OC Board of Surpervisors this month among other things!

I have the S&H initiative address....where should I send money for your website (IF needed) and ETRPA? I couldn't find an address on their site.
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1999 12:46:51 -0700 From: "Glenn & Sue" > To: <editor>

I say No, No, No.
I am a 41yo 18yr home owner , native Californian, and native local in the flight path, that was hoping to live here forever. The military was not bearable. Now they want to have non-stop flights. NO.

A VOTER: Laguna Niguel, CA 92677
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Subject: Stop the Jets Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 13:02:02 -0700 From: Connie To List

How will we live with the noise and we all know about the crashes. When it can't go into an body of water, who will die? It is obvious the people around the flight path will not only have to deal with the noise, loss of property value, but maybe one day their lives. For once report the truth. The voice of the people needs to be heard, not the fat cats in office. --------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Shocked in Laguna Niguel Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 13:17:31 -0700 To List

xxx Isle Vista Laguna Niguel, CA 92677
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Subject: NO AIRPORT NO AIRPORT NO AIRPORT Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 15:38:13 -0700
What a total scam this whole thing is.

LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE!

I sat down through all the toll roads, I am not allowing this to happen. Never mind the noise which is too loud at my house. The traffic at the El Toro Y, what a joke. The danger and the dirt. We don't need another airport! Chris xxxxLaguna Beach
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Subject: Re: Runway construction Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 16:32:26 -0700 From: Nick To: Len Kranser <editor> References: 1 , 2

Len, This test that the county is conducting does not reflect how real fully loaded aircraft will take off. When I flew KC-130's out of El Toro 20 years ago, we normally used a runway 7 departure. However, when we were at max gross, we took off the safe way...down hill into the prevailing wing. That was a runway 25 departure. This test is a big waste of money, proves nothing and if this does become an airport, I believe that ALPA will demand that runway 25 be the primary departure for safety reasons. Coordination will need to be made with JWA, of course, because there TCA's overlap and that will be cumbersome (unworkable) with so many departures. Answer: close JWA and only use El Toro. Pretty slick!
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Subject: Noise Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 14:57:05 +0000 From: JudyTo: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

How could you support this? I have lived in Orange County my entire life. Have you no mercy for the people who have already bought homes in South Orange County, for the people who located here because of the peaceful, and family-oriented communities. For the people who have invested sizable amounts of money in these communities? And now, PROPERTY VALUES are already going to fall, simply because of these tests. Can you imagine the damage? NO ONE who has listened to the feedback of the unacceptable noise levels from areas like Foothill Ranch, Aliso Viejo, Laguna Hills etc., will EVER want to buy a house out there. What were you thinking? There will be no place left to go in Orange County. The north and central areas are simply dirty, old and uninviting. The only areas that might be acceptable, will be unaffordable to middle-class, family-driven people like me. Orange County was always about being away from the big city mess that Los Angeles is. Where was the need to become another Los Angeles? I hate LA. If I have to go there on business, I charge extra. How could you do this to the people of Laguna Woods? For them this might be the last stop. What were you thinking? Nothing can justify this. NOTHING!
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Subject: NO EL TORO Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 16:59:12 -0700 From: Jay To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org

You've taken the peace and quiet I searched for and found when I moved out to the "boondocks" of Coto. The testing has confirmed without a doubt that the peace of Coto will be lost forever if you open this airport. Between JWA and Ontario which is now very close since the 241 opened, we are more than covered. WE DONT NEED EL TORO!!!
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Subject: El Toro "Air Show" Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:07:08 -0700 From: "Ron Your El Toro "Air Show" continues to irritate me. I just heard the B737-300 set for a 4:50 p.m. arrival come in for a landing. My home is located approximately 2 1/2 miles to the east. The noise was high pitched and EXTREMELY irritating and offensive. To think you want me to listen to 400 of such noise events per day!

What your "Air Show" is proving is that the noise is very disturbing to a path of homes 3 miles wide on each side of centerline. If you get out your Thomas Guide and draw the map, you will find that the vast majority of south county will be severely noise impacted. No amount of money squandered by the majority on the Board of Supervisors is going to convince me otherwise.
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Subject: Another Complaint Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:32:30 EDT From: To: homepage@eltoroairport.org,
Ladies and Gentlemen:

I understand that you are too busy to respond given the response to the flights, but I offer my comments for the file.

According to the press, the aircraft used on Saturday were supposed to be quieter! Quieter, more powerful aircraft, flying unloaded, leaving a smaller noise footprint, not needing to throttle up -- and still, this amount of noise was generated. The only conclusion that I can draw is that this test is a farce. I only hope that the public backlash from this demonstration will backfire in the faces of the airport proponents.
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Subject: El Toro "Demo" Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:35:01 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

Dan xxx Laguna Niguel Ca 92677 949 495 2191
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Thank You for hearing my voice in the matter Sincerely
Subject: El Toro Test Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 18:24:56 -0700
What a waste of taxpayers money. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that jet planes make noise...lots of noise. I measured some of the flights passing overhead in Monarch Terrace near the coast at over 84 DB. They tell us this level is no worse than a vacuum cleaner, but our vacuum cleaner doesn't turn itself on every two minutes night and day. We started to hear each flight one to two minutes before before it passed overhead and then heard them for another minute or two as they passed on towards El Toro. With flights projected for every two minutes we will never be without a some level of roaring noise overhead!!

This "test" should be a real eye opener for everyone in Orange County and a black eye for the Supervisors that are pushing for this disaster.
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Subject: Noise Tests Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 21:55:34 -0400

Sometime between 12 and 12:30 pm this afternoon I heard what I thought was thunder. When I went outside I saw beautiful clear skies and realized that what I had heard was an El Toro test flight! The frightening thing is that I live in Irvine, North of Culver - an area that is well outside the flight pattern and is supposed to be unaffected by El Toro air traffic. If I could clearly hear a small, partially loaded jet where I live, the impact of a fully loaded 777 or DC10 (jets favored for cross-country and international flights) is going to devastate South Orange County.
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Subject: Friday and Saturday flight test Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:58:25 -0700 From:
To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>
Gentlemen:

What a travesty.
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Subject: Flight Demos Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 20:17:55 -0700

So today was the "quiet" day??? I was not at home yesterday to hear the louder tests, but todays' were louder than I want happening on a day-in, day-out basis here. Not only that, but huge jetliners taking off tend to mar the view as well. I recorded a couple of samples (attached), so you can hear what it sounded like here in Foothill Ranch: Subject: I live in the flight path Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:27:33 -0700
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To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>,
I live in Laguna Hills, and as the flight demos occurred, we found that we were closer than we thought. The aircraft came right next to our balcony. You could practically see the pilot in the aircraft.

To Whom It May Concern, is anyone listening!!!!!!!!!!!!! I live in Mission Viejo and not even under the proposed flight paths. The engines rumbles and roars were very noticable even though we are considered not in any type of noise zone. Please don't ruin our tranquil lives. Not only the noise but the pollution will be backed up against the mountains just like Ontario Ca. I know this is big business but what will that be to you when you are gone and others get to suffer with your decision! Sincerely,
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Subject: El Toro Airport Testing Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:48:52 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

We live in Aliso Viejo and after the two day tet program is complete, all we can say it is far worse than what we expected. The worst offender was the B-747 whih was so loud I could not carry a conversation in my housr without shouting. The mere fact that the county is planning an airport in a populated area with many families who are trying to raise their children, it shows the county supervisors in favor of an airport are going to leave a leagcy that includes runing many people lives and poluting a beautiful part of Orange County.
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Subject: El Toro Flights Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 20:56:41 -0700 From:

To Everyone, We don't want an airport. Thanks for using our tax money to show us that we still don't want an airport!!!!!! An occasional plane coming and going is a far cry from them coming and going all day and night. You must think we are so stupid. I know in my heart you could care less. It is all about MONEY. How sad this world has become.
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Subject: Airport Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 10:39:17 -0400 To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org, amdano@yahoo.com
I live in Laguna Niguel and the noise from the planes reminded me of when I had a cottage across from a SAC Base back in the 60s. It's awful and it means nothing but bad news for most of the residents. I have not heard one good report about the benefits of this airport. Except someone will make a lot of money if it goes through.
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Subject: Test Flights Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 10:52:39 -0700 From: David Flights over Kite Hill in Laguna Niguel were clearly audible- even though we are several miles from the airport. The 747's on Friday were particularly loud and emitted whistling noises. Since the planes were empty, flying at higher than normal altitudes, in glide patterns and only arriving sporadically rather than every two or three minutes, we can only shudder to think what the actual airport scenario would be like.
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Subject: The Noise Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 11:02:14 -0700 From: RKS

I live in Lake Forest in Serrano Park, the tract closest to the proposed airport, and under the takeoff path for the east runway. The test flights this weekend proved many things to me.

I do believe some good will come of this weekend's tests. Many of my neighbors were either unsure or ambivalent above the impact of this airport. Today they have seen and heard the future and are angry and ready to take a stand. If anything, these demonstrations have served as a wake-up call to this community. We have just begun to fight.
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Subject: El Toro Airport Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 21:30:28 -0700 To: List

While sitting in my backyard in RSM I was bombarded with noise on Saturday afternoon. The planes only tested over our area 4 times that day. I can't begin to imagine what it would be like to have them take off every few minutes. PLEASE don't let this airport go in!
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Subject: Comment on El Toro Airport Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:35:37 -0700 From: "Bob I don't even know where to start. The prospect of an International Airport in El Toro is horrific.

Just to list a few concerns:

I realize that there are many people who seem to like living in those kind of areas, and that's fine, but it's going to be a real shame to turn South County into one of them.

It will truly be a shame for South County to become a proverbial "part of L.A."
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Subject: Commercial Test flights 6/4/99 & 6/5/99 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 00:58:13 EDT From:
We live in the southern end of RSM. Every flight was very loud, whether landing or taking off.

This is totally unacceptable. We do not want this airport facility. The noise was loud enough in the night that with our windows opened the noise awoke every member of our family.
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Subject: STOP the sham of the airport Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 22:13:42 -0700 From: Why hasn't the County establish a reliable means to correctly tally all the complaints? I can't imagine the value of a full mailbox!! And the results are probably going to be published as "reliable" statistics. I think I wasn't alone finding it almost impossible to follow the schedule. I think this was specifically part of the demonstration, so anti-airport people will look like crazed by lodging complaints about false departures or arrivals!! There is always small aircraft (and a few larger ones) traffic over Irvine, that one could easily pin it on a schedule test flight, and thus be rebuffed.
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Subject: I won't raise my kids here! Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 23:21:04 -0700 From: Steven

If people move from here they won't go to North County or L.A. they'll leave the state. Property Values will slide, brain power will move and blight and crime will move in. Really, it will. Just drive under the flight path at LAX or any major airport and tell me what you find.
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Subject: Results of El Toro Airport noise demonstration Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 05:44:05 -0700
The noise levels in Northwood (Irvine) on Saturday afternoon were unacceptable. Because we have a noisy neighbor, we have already installed double-pane gas-filled windows and three fountains in our backyard to mask noise. Even with our windows closed and fountains running, we could clearly hear take-offs to the North while watching the Nicks/Pacers game on TV in our family room. This noise level 24 hours per day, 7 days per week would be extremely disruptive and unacceptable. It's the amount of noise that wakes our baby up at night, prevents us from sleeping, and causes our neighborhood to call the police.

Do not build an international airport at El Toro.
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Subject: El Toro Demo Flights Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 20:53:11 -0700 From
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Today I was doing volunteer work in Wood Canyon, a semi-Wilderness area. I go there often as it's a wonderful, relaxing and quiet place for a bike ride or to simply walk.

The proposed El Toro airport is not only a selfish plan, but also is detrimental to the high standards our community school systems currently have and the outstanding results we've archived so far.

Yet, it seems, the majority of the board of supervisors chooses to ignore those they represent -- residents of Orange County.

I experience these blatant actions of the three county supervisors as appalling, revolting, and in my mind clearly dishonest.

I'm angered -- no, outraged -- at the Orange County board of supervisors irresponsible decision to use The People's hard earned tax money to fund the promotion of corporate interests and desires.
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Subject: WEEKEND FLIGHT TESTS Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:02:21 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,
We live in Portola Hills and, although we are completely against an international airport going in at the El Toro Marine Base for many reasons, we were curious about the flight tests scheduled for Friday and Saturday. Now that they have been completed, we find it difficult to make much of an assessment with the sporadiac and light weight tests that were conducted. The reduced load capacity and the frequency of these airplanes certainly would not give an accurate representation of the noise level and amount of planes during a day or night. However, even if the the airport traffic were at the level conducted it would be very disturbing with a constant noise factor that would be irritating. Those of us who located ourselves in a planned community did not select this beautiful area with an International Airport in our back yards in mind. Nor did we, by any stretch of the imagine, think that an International Airport could be railroaded into our backyards by politics!
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Subject: PROTEST Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 09:18:40 -0700 From:

The flight tests made me realize the adverse impact the airport will have on Lake Forest and surrounding communities. I believe many people came to that conclusion June 4 & 5. Have any of the anti-airport organizations made plans for protest??
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Subject: Stop the Airport Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:58:57 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,
Stop the Airport at El Toro!!!!!

STOP THE EL TORO AIRPORT
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Subject: June 4 & 5 airport testing Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:59:11 EDT From:
I live on the lake in Mission Viejo and was startled by the 747 that flew overhead Friday morning at approx. 7:30 am. The plane did not land at El Toro and I could not "see" it but the noise inside my house was deafening. When I called to complain it was hard to get through, but with persistence and much calling around I was told this plane only passed by and did not land. Will future "wave offs" also go over my house? The future for South County is looking dim if this is what the new millennium has to offer.

Also why isn't San Diego looking into this-they don't have an international airport-they need it before anyo
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Subject: Test flights Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 15:12:08 -0700 From: Frank To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org

Yesterday's 747 that passed over my house in Dana Point was much lower than the military jets used to fly. It was loud, and interrupted a phone conversation I was having. This kind of noise every few minutes will be intollerable. We already get the overflights from John Wayne after they circle back to land. It's time for the County to rethink this plan, and look for better alternatives.
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How will we live with the noise and we all know about the crashes. When it can't go into an body of water, who will die? It is obvious the people around the flight path will not only have to deal with the noise, loss of property value, but maybe one day their lives. For once report the truth. The voice of the people needs to be heard, not the fat cats in office.
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Subject: Shocked in Laguna Niguel Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 13:17:31 -0700 From:
My husband and I moved here 3 months ago. We had heard the discussions on El Toro and have kept an open mind.....until these tests. Our home is in Monarch Pointe, on top of a hill right off the ocean. The planes may have been flying at 3000 feet above sea level, but as they approached our community, they were closer to 1000 feet. After Friday afternoon, I went into my house and cried. I could not even hear the person standing next to me. Please, please there has to be a more sane and humane way of approaching our future transportation challenges. I urge you to consider other alternatives. The effects to our cities will be devastating.
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Subject: NO AIRPORT NO AIRPORT NO AIRPORT Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 15:38:13 -0700
What a total scam this whole thing is.

LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE!

I sat down through all the toll roads, I am not allowing this to happen. Never mind the noise which is too loud at my house. The traffic at the El Toro Y, what a joke. The danger and the dirt. We don't need another airport! Laguna Beach
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Subject: Re: Runway construction Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 16:32:26 -0700 From: Nick To: Len Kranser <editor> References: 1 , 2

Len, This test that the county is conducting does not reflect how real fully loaded aircraft will take off. When I flew KC-130's out of El Toro 20 years ago, we normally used a runway 7 departure. However, when we were at max gross, we took off the safe way...down hill into the prevailing wing. That was a runway 25 departure. This test is a big waste of money, proves nothing and if this does become an airport, I believe that ALPA will demand that runway 25 be the primary departure for safety reasons. Coordination will need to be made with JWA, of course, because there TCA's overlap and that will be cumbersome (unworkable) with so many departures. Answer: close JWA and only use El Toro. Pretty slick!
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Subject: Noise Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 14:57:05 +0000 From: Judy

How could you support this? I have lived in Orange County my entire life. Have you no mercy for the people who have already bought homes in South Orange County, for the people who located here because of the peaceful, and family-oriented communities. For the people who have invested sizable amounts of money in these communities? And now, PROPERTY VALUES are already going to fall, simply because of these tests. Can you imagine the damage? NO ONE who has listened to the feedback of the unacceptable noise levels from areas like Foothill Ranch, Aliso Viejo, Laguna Hills etc., will EVER want to buy a house out there. What were you thinking? There will be no place left to go in Orange County. The north and central areas are simply dirty, old and uninviting. The only areas that might be acceptable, will be unaffordable to middle-class, family-driven people like me. Orange County was always about being away from the big city mess that Los Angeles is. Where was the need to become another Los Angeles? I hate LA. If I have to go there on business, I charge extra. How could you do this to the people of Laguna Woods? For them this might be the last stop. What were you thinking? Nothing can justify this. NOTHING!
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Subject: NO EL TORO Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 16:59:12 -0700 From> To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,
You've taken the peace and quiet I searched for and found when I moved out to the "boondocks" of Coto. The testing has confirmed without a doubt that the peace of Coto will be lost forever if you open this airport. Between JWA and Ontario which is now very close since the 241 opened, we are more than covered. WE DONT NEED EL TORO!!!
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Subject: Another Complaint Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:32:30 EDT From: To: homepage@eltoroairport.org,

I understand that you are too busy to respond given the response to the flights, but I offer my comments for the file.

According to the press, the aircraft used on Saturday were supposed to be quieter! Quieter, more powerful aircraft, flying unloaded, leaving a smaller noise footprint, not needing to throttle up -- and still, this amount of noise was generated. The only conclusion that I can draw is that this test is a farce. I only hope that the public backlash from this demonstration will backfire in the faces of the airport proponents.
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Subject: Airport News Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:21:21 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,
Dear OC Board of Supervisors

Thank You for hearing my voice in the matter Sincerely Sue xxx
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:58:25 -0700 From: "Michael To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>Gentlemen:

What a travesty.
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Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 20:56:41 -0700

The El Toro Test Flights were a farce for another reason. The weather was particularly cool which gives much more lift to the wings and with greater moisture content more efficiency in the engines so the aircraft were much higher than they would have been in the hot summertime with a wind off the ocean.
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Subject: El Toro Airporrt Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 21:09:29 -0700 FromTo Everyone, We don't want an airport. Thanks for using our tax money to show us that we still don't want an airport!!!!!! An occasional plane coming and going is a far cry from them coming and going all day and night. You must think we are so stupid. I know in my heart you could care less. It is all about MONEY. How sad this world has become.
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Subject: Airport Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 10:39:17 -0400 To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org, I live in Laguna Niguel and the noise from the planes reminded me of when I had a cottage across from a SAC Base back in the 60s. It's awful and it means nothing but bad news for most of the residents. I have not heard one good report about the benefits of this airport. Except someone will make a lot of money if it goes through.
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Subject: June 5th Flights Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:12:45 -0700 From: "Tom

Here is a copy of a letter I sent to the Supervisors, since I can't be heard on their poorly planned voice mail systems. I thought you can use it as well? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- Dear Supervisors, Again, I have tried to call and lodge a complaint, but the mail box is full, (714) 834-3000 and (949) 252-5186, this is absurd.

I would like to log a formal complaint as to the unavailability of the leaving a complaint to be tallied by an independent party and mailboxes being full. It does not seem to me you are interested in the complaints and have not made proper arrangements to hear any complaints. This seems typical of the poor planning for this fiasco.

I also would like to formally log a complaint on a Flight on June 5 at 12:00pm and at 12:14pm over Portola Hills, it was extremely noisy and much to low! This will simply ruin the quality of life here, lower property values and jeopardize the health and welfare of our children.

It is amazing to me that you have no monitoring station at Portola Elementary School, why? Scared of the results? This is a major problem for our students and should be studied.

I also find it amazing that you are flying the quieter aircraft today (June 5)and depriving the residents of a true idea of the noise problems, as well as the complete inaccuracy of your website and the flight times, why is this? More poor planning. Do you think that the aircraft flying today is representative of the type of aircraft that will be flying out of this airport? Did not think so. Why are you not flying more 747 or 767's? Exactly, more people are home today and it would really be a problem for your planning process to shove this airport down the throats of the residents of South O.C.

Please, use JWA to it's potential. We have enough airports in So. Cal to meet the demand. Lift the artificial limits at JWA . Don't turn So. Orange County into a Polluted, undesirable area. Please THINK, what has helped South O.C. to prosper? Open Space, Clean Air, Quiet and Safe neighborhoods and a quality of life that the people here desire. Don't ruin that. Support the Millenium Plan, it offers the virtues of what has made OC a growing, thriving area.

Thank you for your consideration,
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Subject: FW: WE DON'T WANT THIS AIRPORT!!!!!!!! Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:20:46 -0700 From: "fred > To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>

I am writing you to complain about the unacceptable noise generated from Saturdays test. I was out all day Friday, however I have heard that noise was even worse yesterday.

I bought my house in Lake Forest about a year ago and soon after started hearing about the proposed airport. My neighborhood is usually very quiet. However today I feel like I am living next door to LAX. I tried to call the airport planning office to complain, however their voice mail is full.

All I can say is this. If Orange county is stupid enough to build a busy airport here, I will likely sell my house and move out of the area. I will loose a lot of my investment moving out so early however, I will not sacrifice my quality of life or that of my family. County officials that support the idea of an airport, you should be ashamed of yourselves for wrecking this quiet community if an airport goes in. I hope Silva and other airport supports are kicked out of office and airport planners are sued. You are a public disgrace to this community and it is obviously that pro-airport people are only in this for the money. Quit now before you waste more of our tax dollars on projects that the community does not want, or face the lawsuits your are awaiting by going ahead with this plan.

Actually the test today was probably a good idea, I am sure it will gain public awareness of really how much everyone will be really pissed off by having a noisy airport on our doorsteps.

Come up with a better plan, this one will never fly!
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Subject: noise complaint Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 14:37:39 EDT From: Kaminpour@aol.com To: coalition@eltoroairport.org

I have tried to log a noise complaint regarding the slight demonstration. The phone number that has been provided is full of messages and I have tried to find the complaint section on the web page www.eltorofacts.org. There are no places to log a complaint. As always evrrything is one sided. The people involved don't want the voice of airport opponents to be heard. What a crock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My name and address is as follows;

xxxxxx Dana Point, CA 92629
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Subject: 11:01 Flight at 11:55 - East over Melinda Heights, RSM Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 12:11:35 -0700 From: "Carol To: <editor>

The scheduled Saturday 11:01 flight just flew DIRECTLY over our house in the Melinda Heights area of RSM at 11:55. It was very loud, and we could see a long trail of black following the plane. I suppose this will be the polution that settles on our cars and outdoor furniture in the future. We could not sell our house with all the taxes, Mello Roos, and association fees amouting to about $5,000 a year if prospective buyers saw what we just saw going over our house. I just hope and pray that the airport doesn't happen. Even if the flight paths are changed and the planes end up not going over our house, they will be going over other people's houses and the general area will be covered with black jet fuel.
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Subject: El Toro Airport Demo Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 12:11:47 -0700 From: "Roger Having lived in South Orange County since 1985, I have enjoyed the quality of life that I have come to expect from a well-planned and affluent community. The El Toro Marine Base has been a part of my experience since my move here, but in no way made me want to seek residence elsewhere. The reason behind my choice to co-reside with a Marine Base was based on the aircraft usage characteristics and associated curfews (yes, curfews were waived in times of political unrest and this was acceptable). Specifically the military aircraft would exhibit "clustered" activity that lasted for a short-duration followed by silence. Rarely were military flight activities noted after 10PM nor on weekends.

Currently I reside in Aliso Viejo on a ridgeline that is adjacent to Laguna Beach's "Top-of-the-World" and Laguna Niguel. Having experienced Friday's commercial flight demonstrations, I was very surprised by the results and following are my observations: 1) The commercial aircraft were much lower than the military aircraft. 2) The commercial aircraft were much slower than the military aircraft. The actual tires were visible on the planes without wheel well coverings. 3) The commercial aircraft were quiet as they approached, but sound greatly intensified once overhead and while moving away. 4) The 747 and 767 exhibited unacceptable sound levels. 5) The smaller and newer 737 and A300 were not too obtrusive sound-wise, but still disruptive and ominous in appearance.

Another alarming fact is that these planes will actually be louder during normal operation as Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) mode is used. Visual Flight Rules (VFR) mode was used during the demonstrations resulting in quieter operations especially with landings. Additionally, the demonstration included a partial compliment of aircraft types with partial payloads flying in ideal weather conditions.

If airport development continues to proceed as planned, then my concern level will escalate exponentially. The demonstration experience has shifted my concerns FROM my property value TO my quality of life. Knowing the proposed operation characteristics of the proposed El Toro International Airport, the types of aircraft planned, and my perception during the demonstrations, I cannot co-reside with this airport. Although controversial, the demonstrations have proven valuable to me in that the experience was REAL and MUCH worse than I expected (much louder and lower than expected).

Lastly, it was surprising how widely spread the impact was after having discussions with peers and friends throughout South Orange County. In my discussions, it appears that almost every South County City has seen and heard a jet overhead (again lower than expected), thus making South Orange County no longer a very attractive place to live.

After the commercial aircraft flight demonstrations, the El Toro Airport conversion is no longer a property value issue, but quality of life issue!!
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Subject: Test flights Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 12:44:19 -0700 From
Jason xxxxx Lake Forest CA 92630

At 12:12 on June 5th a plane literally shook my house as it went over head. Please change plans or flight paths!!!!!!!

A very upset resident of Lake Forest.
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Subject: Test flights Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 11:23:31 -0700 From:

As Fridays date for test flights approached, I could not have imagined how horrible its reality would truly be. We are located in the community of Three Arch Bay in Laguna Beach and have made our life here for over ten years. We have survived flood, fire, earthquake and toll road but have never wavered in our love of our community, and joy in our life here. Words cannot describe the doomed sinking feeling we felt as the first arriving flights began directly over our home and community.

When we purchased our home, we did so with the realization that El Toro was an active airport base with jets and cargo plane flying overhead. The airport activity was limited with jets "coming home" at a days end. Cargo planes were few and far in between. I had a sense of American pride and safety of our military close by. I am have no pride in my community today. We did not purchase a home under the flight path of a 24 hour every three minute landing commercial airport!

We have been betrayed and served up by our officials, developers, and neighbors. How can you say the voting process has been fair: when so many unaffected by the decision direct the lives of we the "doomed" few directly over the flight path.

My home has lost it's value, Laguna Beach has lost it's quality. The airport does not belong here, not anywhere.

My fight has just begun, we won't be defeated simply because you think this airport is "best" for me. Subject: The jet noise during the test was far worse than I had imagined
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 11:27:04 -0700 From: "Phil To: <ETRPA@eltoroairport.org>

My wife and I love sitting on our deck at sunset, overlooking Salt Creek canyon.

Having a plane (making noise as loud as a vacuum cleaner) come through this peaceful scene is what the problem is with putting in a commerical airport at El Toro. People chose to live in this area because they love being outdoors. The airport proposal will destroy this for all of us South County residents. It is fundamentally unfair for the Newport Beach crowd to "rail-road" this economically unsound public works project for their own benefit.

Up until this point, I've been against the airport on purely economic grounds. Now, however, I am completely opposed to it. The tests proved to me that the quality of life destruction is a legitimate argument. It disgusts me to think that a few politicians have blatently distorted the truth about the airport in order to gain a power base for themselves -- it borders on corruption.

Please stop wasting our tax dollars on this public works disaster. Just think about it -- the airport won't be economically sound and it will destroy the quality of life for many South County residents. Do you really want your name on a project like that? Is this the legacy you want to leave?
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Honorable Supervisors,

We live in the Meadowood part of Northwood in Irvine and are close to the Culver and Portola intersection. We want to thank you for the farce of a test that wasted over a million dollars of our money. Especially appreciated was the unsafe practices of flying without Ground Control and not observing the published flight paths. We'll remember this at election time. We vote NO on the airport. The noise, especially from the 747 that flew over at approximately 7:20 PM, was both very loud and appeared to be far to the west of the published flight path.

The normally quiet El Toro was very noisy yesterday. This is why the supporters in Newport Beach don't want John Wayne Airport to be expanded. Noise, traffic, congestion, pollution -- NO El TORO AIRPORT.
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Subject: No to an El Toro airport! Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 11:32:13 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

We have just overheard the first jet pass by overhead for the El Toro flight demonstration ... and we feel sick. As the 747 "coasted" by we were unable to hear ourselves speak in our own backyard. Damn anyone who tries to compare the noise of 747's to the infrequent military jets that pass by in formation! The military jets are always an enjoyable sight to watch, and we give them a "thumbs up" when they fly by.

We have worked so hard to have the opportunity to buy a nice home in a quiet and safe neighborhood to raise our family, and now this proposed airport hangs over our heads like a permanent rain cloud. We don't see how we could continue to live in our home with this noise. It is a terrible thing for anyone to expect our community to tolerate this! How can MORE money/revenue be more important than preserving Southern Orange County? Greed, opportunism and selfishness are the words that come to mind for anyone that could support this potential disaster.

Sincerely,
xxxx (and family) Laguna Niguel
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Subject: TEST FLIGHTS Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:05:37 EDT From:

IS ANYONE VARIFING THE LOADS (WEIGHT) BEING PLACED IN THESE TEST FLIGHTS, AND ALSO ARE THESE TAKE OFFS BEING PERFORMED UNDER FULL POWER AS THEY WOULD BE IN REAL LIFE, OR ARE THEY JUST BABYING THEM OUT TO APPEAR TO BE QUIETER?

SHOULD CONSIDER ANOTHER TEST FLIGHT DAY WITH THE NOISIER AIRCRAFT THAT THE AIRLINES WILL REALLY BE USING FULLY LOADED TAKING OFF EVERY 4 MINUTES TO GIVE AN ACCURATE DEMONSTRATION OF WHAT AN AIRPORT WOULD BE LIKE!!!!!!!!
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Subject: flight demos Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 10:40:17 -0700 From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org, Hi Len -

I'm sending this to you because, well, there's really nowhere else, is there ;-)

Well, another day of noise. At 10:20 AM Saturday, June 5, the roar and whine of jet engines just stopped everything cold here in North Tustin/Lemon Heights. Of course, I called the JWA phone number to register a complaint, and they refer me to an alternate county number. Of course, and in spite of utter suspicion about whether the county would ever log and report said complaint, I find that their voice mail box is "full".

HA! How convenient that the county gets to arrange it's own "complaint department", only to ensure that it doesn't work.

Wait, there goes another plane...

The funny thing is, there are hundreds of very affluent families here who might not have understood the urgency of the El Toro matter until now, but this changed everything. People are standing outside, staring at the sky in disbelief, and waiting for the noise to subside before they can resume their cursing at the imbeciles who are responsible this charade. It just gets funnier when they find out that these are the "quiet" planes, with tiny payloads - not the fully laden [assenger and cargo transports that would populate a real airport. Madness.

Matthew xxx Tustin
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Subject: Test Flights Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 11:01:54 EDT From:

A few thoughts on the test flights: 1. I was suprised at how low in altitude the planes flew in Ranch Santa Margarita (5-8 , miles away). 2. I noticed that the flights could not even keep to a set schedule, even after the weather improved. 3. What, no 747's on Saturday? I wonder why. 4. Why so few departures to the east? I thought that his represents 70% of the take-offs. The test flights are a sham. Put me on your e-mail list. Please keep up the good work.
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Subject: June 4 test flights Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 20:16:12 +0000 From: karen To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org, Dear Sirs:

I would like to voice my opinion of the test flights performed this evening. My husband and I experienced the effects of both take off, and landing. We own a rental property in Trabuco Canyon and our primary residence in Laguna Hills. The aircraft flew directly over the Trabuco Canyon home causing noise and disruption to the normally quiet community. The aircraft was so close to the homes that we could read the numbers on it.

Upon landing, we could definately hear the approach over the many homes in our Laguna Hills neighborhood of Nellie Gail Ranch. Our daughter attends our church preschool which is also directly under the flight path. Noise would be a negative to hundreds of kids.

Please record this comment as a NEGATIVE to the test flights and El Toro Airport. Why should a minority of airport supporters and 6 supervisors decide the fate of our real estate values and quality of our lives.
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Subject: Noise testing Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 19:27:57 -0700 From: chris To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

At 7:25 we were definitely impacted by the noise off runway 7. We live near the lake in Mission Viejo and do not want that going on all day every day. Subject: Low flying El Toro airplanes
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:09:56 -0700 From:

At 7:25 pm on 6/4/99 the sound of low flying aircraft brought me from my library to my balcony. Besides the disturbing noise, I was astonished at how LOW the plane was flying.

The noise was so disturbing that my next door neighbor stopped mowing his lawn to look up. Imagine how loud the plane must have been to disturb my neighbor, whose ears were only feet from the lawnmower engine
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Subject: Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:12:28 -0700 From: "Jerry > To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>

The demonstration flights have been VERY, VERY noisy. If this airport goes in my quality of life will be destroyed. I will never get a full nights sleep and my property values will drop dramatically.
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Subject: Phone mailbox Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:19:52 -0700 From:

At 7:08 pm on 6/4/99, I called 714.834.3000 to complain about the eltoro airplane noise. This was only the fifth flight, yet your mailbox was full. Either 1)thousands of complaints had already been lodged, or 2)you intentionally didn't expand your mailboxes so as to propogandize that you received relatively few complaints. Eithe way, local residents most affected by El Toro are being shut out of the process.

PS - I was particularly surprised that Ms Mittermeier's phone went unanswered (not even a recorded message). How shamefull !!
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Subject: The flyovers Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 20:20:23 -0700 From: To: coalition@eltoroairport.org
Hey Leonard:

I'm on my wife's computer so the email address is different. Hey, you gave out the wrong number for noise abatement. The number was (949)252-5158. All I got was some crytic voicemail reply. I called John Wayne Airport and got the number of the FAA at (310) 715-3300, but it just rang and rang. The first 747 went over at 7:30 pm tonight. At least it was the first one I saw and heard as it was when I was coming home from work and was standing in the Ralph's parking lot down on Aliso Creek Road.

So what do I do Leonard?
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To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>My husband and I are sending you this e-mail to let you know that during the test flights on June 4, 1999, there was a significant noise level that we experienced. The flight path is directly above our home which is situated near the Aliso Woods Canyon Park in Laguna Niguel. In addition to the noise, everytime a plane is overhead, the windows in our house rattle. We tried to send our comments via phone to the El Toro Planning Office at (714) 834 3000, but their mailbox is constantly full. We absolutely oppose a commercial airport at El Toro and believe that the millions of dollars could have been spent more wisely than this publicly-known bogus test. If indeed noise levels need to be monitored, why don't they just do it at locations near LAX.

Thank you for your time in reading this.
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Subject: EL TORO AIRPORT Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:33:02 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org

The Orange County Board of Supervisors must think we're stupid. This test confirms my worst fears. But I'm sure in their wisdom (?) we will end up with an international airport at El Toro.

And what about the money we spent for the renovations at John Wayne? For those that remember, the cost of the new John Wayne facility went way over budget and way past the deadline. And now we'll see it turn private in no time.

Of course they'll say "that isn't going to happen." I remember the last time someone said "I never had sex with that women!" With the exception of a couple of supervisors, I don't trust them. They'll stab us the minute we turn our back.
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Subject: Noisy Planes/El Toro Test Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 20:43:46 -0800 From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,
Dear Sirs:

They are currently conducting the El Toro noise tests, and the planes flying overhead are very loud. The whole idea of an airport on that site is ridiculous - is there someone I can call to complain?
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Subject: Phone System??? Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 21:58:41 -0700 From: To: editor

What the hell is up with the County's number for registering complaints. They have no one taking phone calls and when you try to call the system cannot handle anymore messages. I though they wanted to hear from us good folks.
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Subject: Airport Noise Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 22:02:28 -0700 From:

I can hear them with all the windows closed....

... Every one of them.

... Every plane coming off the East runway

... Every empty plane.

The sound that you are now hearing is my property value falling ....

Signed...
The people that don't live in Newport Beach...
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Subject: Test Flights Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 22:45:27 -0700 From: Sharon To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

This entire evening beginning at 3:59 pm has been completely disruptive due to the test flights running over my home and neighborhood. I work out of my home and it is inconceivable that I will be able to conduct business over the telephone if the so-called "test flights" are indicative of the amount of noise that I will hear consistently as a result of regular air traffic. I can't even hear myself think let alone be able to hear my customers! That's just the business end. My personal life will be affected as well - when I saw how low those jets were flying it was quite alarming. Again and again I am amazed that there are actually people who have convinced themselves that this is a good idea. It is obvious that those supporters are clearly not going to be affected by the proposed airport at MCAS El Toro. Sharon xxxx Aliso Viejo Resident
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Subject: Re: Flight Tests Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 23:06:36 -0700 To: Hi everybody,

Welcome to the flight test! Yes, we had some flights over Coto tonight. At 7:58 PM a small jet (737?) flew over the west side of Coto headed southeast towards the Ortega and Camp Pendleton. The flight was low and loud. It was much lower than I expected. At 8:05 PM a flight flew over Mission Viejo, also loud and also fairly low, but higher than the flight over Coto. These two flights were much louder and lower than the flights we get out of John Wayne. Christine said she heard loud jets all day since she was home recovering from her Carpal Tunnel surgery.

The noise was much louder and the plane much lower than I expected. There goes another one! 10:51PM and a jet is flying out over the east side of Coto. He is much higher than the other two jets I saw this evening. He is still not as high as the jets taking off or landing at John Wayne when they are overhead. He is definitely much lower and louder than the jets out of LAX when they head east over Coto.

Keep your ears open. El Toro International will devastate Coto!
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Subject: Take a second and imagine this: Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 02:22:47 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org

It is 11:02 on a Friday night. A seventeen year old Junior from a local high school is trying to get some rest before he has to take a test the next day which may impact the rest of his life. Well, don't imagine any longer because this is real. My name is Douglas Talk and I'm 17. I attend Aliso Niguel High School as a Junior. I have been studying to take my SAT 1 test for months now. Knowing the fact that most all colleges base admissions on part or a lot of this test makes me want to do well. Is there anything wrong with dedication or desire? Well, when B737-400s, or A320s, or B767-300-ERs are flying overhead it is a little impossible to relax. I live in Aliso Viejo right across the street from Oak Grove Elementary. I'm basically right under the El Toro flight path on the South side. Now, I'm not going to say that because of these planes I'm going to do bad on my SAT. However, what I am saying is that this airport is going to drastically change this area. Yes, I do believe that when kids sit down to do homework after school they will be distracted a little. In addition to stereos and TVs they will have huge jumbo jets flying over their heads. When this community was designed in a so-called "master plan" I don't think anyone said, "Lets stick all these residences right here, then what the heck how about an international airport right over there." The airport doesn't belong here. Period.
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Subject: Noise Complaints Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 02:38:57 EDT From:

I just wanted to let you know that I called the number you provided for noise complaints and it referred me to (714) 834-3000.

Unfortunately, the voicemail for that number was full and there was no other number given. I am not sure how to get my complaint tallied if I can't get through on this number.

Please let me know if you have any ideas.
Thanks!!
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Subject: NOISE Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 23:50:17 -0700 From: Nancy To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,
I am trying to dose off to sleep and was awakened by an aircraft.

This aircraft was overhead at approximately 11:30. I live at 15 xxxx in Rancho Santa Margarita, CA

I moved here to relocate away from LAX, and to get away from the noise, pollution and various other bad business elements that can be found around the LAX area.

Please respond and let me know what all of the concerned citizens of South Orange County can do about this issue. WE DO NOT WANT EL TORO AS A COMMERCIAL AIRPORT. WE CAN DRIVE TO ONTARIO OR LAX. We want our children to be brought up in a clean environment, and we do not want their learning ability impaired by jets taking off overhead and making the noise and the pollution that they do.
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Subject: Complaint about flight noise regarding the flight demo on June 4 1999 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 23:55:59 -0700 From:
Dear supervisors:
I would like to congratulate you to your steady but seemingly successful endeavor to destroy the quality of live here in South County. I live in Aliso Viejo (31 Elderwood) and just witnessed two of the flight demo landings (9:59pm and 10:29pm) from my house. Given this earful of demonstration I can safely say that I will definitely sell my house and move out of this area in case an international airport at El Toro should really become a reality. I work in a technology leading company in Irvine as a manager for highly professional software engineers. Given today’s demonstration I do not know if I can recommend South County as a nice, peaceful and quite place to work and life for the years to come. I do know that other successful professionals in South County feel the same. Given this situation I believe that an international airport at El Toro will degenerate South County’s financial strength due to the “run-a-ways” like me.

Again, congratulation for making a wrong decision at the right time.
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Subject: Flight Demo Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 00:40:21 -0700 From:> To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,
Thanks for entertaining us this evening. I heard and was disturbed by most of the flights starting with the one at 5:50 PM at ElToro rd and Moulton. These flights included the two at 6:30, one at 7:10, two after 10, three after 11. I think I missed a few while we went out to eat. I appreciate you spending my tax dollars to lower the value of my home. I also thank you and your Newport Beach cronies for the flight patterns that fly directly over my daughter's elementary school. The only regrets I have is that I could not experience the departures also. I guess I do not pay enough taxes for you to afford relocating my house to fullfill my wish. I am looking forward to tomorrows entertainment.

Aliso Viejo, CA 92656
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Subject: El Toro Airport Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 01:57:04 -0700 From:

Dear Supervisors

Have you heard of this saying ? " DO ONTO OTHERS AS YOU'D HAVE THEM DO ONTO YOU "

May the Good Lord repay in kind for the kindness you are showing the rich and the troubles you are heaping onto ordinary folks.

Believe that the Good Lord is always watching, rewarding & punishing even though sometimes these things take time.

Enjoy your glory and the sorrow of the people for as long as it takes the Good Lord to come around to you.
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Subject: Reaction to Flight Test from an Aliso Viejo perspective Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 04:03:54 -0700 From: To: "Len Kranser" <editor>,

This editorial that I sent to both papers pretty much sums up my feeling from the experience in Aliso Viejo. I plan to continue working hard to make sure Safe and Healthy Communities Initiative will be a winner or else I'll definitely be moving out of town. How was it in your cities?

This is the editorial request I sent to both papers:

Many of us in South County live in hills. This is especially true in our areas of Aliso Viejo and Laguna Niguel. What surprised me the most about the demonstration of commercial jets from El Toro is how low and slow they fly by, making the noise unbearable with respect to our high topography. The 747 buzzed by so low and close to homes that it will be a potential safety hazard to our community, particularly under poor visibility conditions. I saw enough to realize that it will be an inhumane condition to live here if El Toro flys. It made me extremely mad to watch Tom Wall and other politicians from or freindly to Newport Beach proclaim on TV that this was a chance for South County to see how quiet the planes were, and how the County absolutely needed El Toro international airport for economic prosperity. Coming from a city that has complained and fought so much over the quieter 737 and 757 planes flying over their low topograhy community at such high elevation, it is inhumane that they'd try to transfer a condition that is of an order of magnitude worse on South County. If an international airport were so critical to the County, why have they worked so hard to make sure adapting John Wayne which is the easiest and cheapest alternative from being the prime plan to suit our future needs? The answer is simple - they don't want to be in the flighpath of commercial jets anymore, even if they are higher and quieter. This should not be the reason to make El Toro fly so our resolve to fight has hardened.
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Subject: El Toro Airport - Why Spend Tax Dollars & Pollute Orange County Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 09:42:00 EDT

At around 8:40 PM last night I heard the noise. My kitchen door was open and I walked into the garden. There it was, I could see the lights and the strong roaring of the engines in the distant sky. The aircraft continued on its descent into El Toro airport leaving behind the thunderous echo of its engines. I ran into the front yard following the aircraft with my eyes, looking up and down the street to find out if anyone else was outside and had become aware of what had happened. I was alone in the street. Was everyone out to dinner or at home with all the windows closed, watching a movie? At that moment I realized that I did not want to live in my house with all the doors and windows closed. I wrote a strong e-mail message to the Orange County Board of Supervisors, and Government official in Washington. Letters are going out to all the airlines that are involved in yesterday's and today's flight tests into El Toro, informing them that effective immediately, my family, relatives and friends will no longer require their services and will never use El Toro airport for our travel plans. I will write to the Air Quality Control Management District (AQMD) requesting them to investigate the noise level and major pollution that is associated with these airplanes traveling through our neighborhood and surrounding areas. Mind you, I am about 20 Miles away from El Toro airport and live in Dana Point, 2 miles south of the Southern Flight Path and still, this potential commercial airport bothers me. Today, I will be alerting my neighbors about what I observed last night. I will remind them that SILENCE FROM ALL OF US CONSTITUTES ACCEPTANCE OF THE EL TORO AIRPORT AND RESULTS IN A MAJOR CHANGE IN THE QUALITY OF OUR LIVES.
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Subject: El Toro Noise Study Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 07:18:12 -0700 From:

At 4:00 PM, 4:15 Pm, 10:25 PM and 10:55 PM, jets flew over my home located at 9 South Vista xxxxxx, Laguna Beach. The 4:00 PM flight was a 747 weighted at 25% capacity.

I phoned the county to comlain of the noise and the fact that although flying directly over my house, which is one of the first few homes a plan can fly over after its approach over the water, the closest noise sensor was over 2 niles away in Salt Creek.

I find it outrageous that the county's noise detection study is so flawed as to ignore the flght pattern of the largest jets and not measure the noise effects below its flight pattern.

To out in perspective the noise, I was inside my house with the gardeners in the backyard using a gas powered leaf blower when I heard the jet engine noise drown out the leaf blower and went outside to see it approcahing toward and then fly over my house.

I am outraged. At approximately 6:30 PM at Riddle field, I was attending a Little League game and witnessed a jet fly over north Laguna which was loud and disruptive.

We must band together to stop this airport. The noise levels in Laguna are obtrusive. I can only imagine what they are like as you get closer to the airport.
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Subject: Flight Demo Noise Complaints Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 10:36:45 EDT From: To: HOMEPAGE@eltoroairport.org

Dear Sir: I have tried to contact the County Noise Abatement Office and all referenced backup numbers and could not get a noise complaint message filed. Wanted to let you know of this screenout problem. I am a resident of Laguna Niguel.
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Subject: Saturday am flights Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 07:50:49 -0700 From:

Just wanted to give my input on what's happening in Laguna Beach this Saturday Morning at 7:30am. I know flights are scheduled to start at 10:00am, but we've had a constant drone of plane noise over our house for the last 40 minutes. This is not the norm. Are the planes in a holding pattern this am? The noise inside our house is very annoying and it precludes enjoying our morning coffee outside in our yard. If this is just a sampling of what we can expect when planes are put in a holding pattern over the airport, then this area will be unlivable. I have always been against the airport plan, but now I'm ready to join the action against the airport. Sign me up with Laguna Beach committees that are working against this plan. E-mail me with any information that will be helpful in putting me in contact with the right people.
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Subject: El Toro Airport demonstration Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 07:53:43 -0700 From:
The flight demonstration has convinced me that operating an international airport at El Toro is infeasible. It has proven the following:

(1) An inability to perform routine take-offs and landings during typical "June gloom" weather
(2) An inability to control flight schedules
(3) Unacceptable noise levels, in excess of 85db
(4) An inability to prohibit use of air space west of the airport, directly over Irvine
(5) An inability to demonstrate the effects of increased automobile traffic on the area surrounding the airport
(6) An inability to demonstrate what 24-hour operation would sound like
(7) An inability to demonstrate what frequent take-offs and landings would sound like
(8) An inability to demonstrate why an airport at El Toro is "needed"; everybody seems to be getting along fine without it

This demonstration has proven to me that an airport at El Toro is undesirable and infeasible. The County of Orange cannot effectively run a simple flight demonstration under routine weather conditions, therefore it is improbable that they can effectively operate an international airport under adverse political conditions.
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Dear Sirs: They are currently conducting the El Toro noise tests, and the planes flying overhead are very loud. The whole idea of an airport on that site is ridiculous - is there someone I can call to complain? Thanks!
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Well, the first 747 just went overhead at 7:30 pm tonight. The number that Leonard gave out was bogus. He wrote that noise abatement was at (949) 252-5158. I tried to get through, but got a stupid voice mail recording. I called John Wayne Airport and they gave me this (310) 715-3300 number for the FAA. It figures that the number just rang and rang. After all it is after 5PM and those government people don't work after that. Does anybody know of a number use to reach someone to complain? The Orange County Supervisors are sure gonna hear from me. They are damned poor excuses for public servants after selling out to big money developers. Thank you

Been there - done that - Thanks for the tip. I sincerly hope that everyone realizes that these tests are a sham!!!! These are new planes without full loads. Meaning... The planes are quieter and the engines aren't being stressed. Not too mention the intervals of the test is ludicrous. Because we all know that flights planned for this proposed airport are going to be 24 - 7, every 3 to 30 seconds apart.
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Please add my e-mail and name to your list of complaints! I live in Laguna Niguel. The level of noise by these flights is simply ridiculous. I think our county supervisors should have a show on television based on America's Dumbest Criminals - they should call it the America's Dumbest Supervisors. Please give me more information on how I can contribute to stop this stupid plan. I believe not only we need to concentrate on stopping the plan, but also we need to investigate the motives of every supervisor and sue them, if possible. Maybe they are not as dumb as they seem. Best regards
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I am a resident in Three Arch Bay and I have been home to witness the planes going overhead during the test flights that have been going on. It is very disturnbing to me how noisty and low these planes have flown, and disruptive they have been to our community and families.
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We've lived in Lake Forest II on xxx Lane in Lake Forest since 1976. (We're between Bake and Lake Forest Drive, off Toledo.) For many years, we learned to "tolerate" the military jet noise, knowing that the noise was occasional, that the Marines WERE there first, and that.. after all... they were defending us. The hardest part was during yearly summer training exercises. It got pretty unbearable at times, but we would stay inside more and keep the windows closed, knowing it would end in a couple of weeks. The Marines were always good with their PR... informing us about when and what to expect. Knowing the duration of discomfort made it much easier. To think of continual flights, louder flights... forever and always... is simple unthinkable! I guess that's why I never really believed it would get to this point. It's called denial, I guess. And noise, of course, is hardly the only issue! Below are copies of the my e-mail to local friends in which I copied the e-mail my daughter sent to HER friends! We intend to be much more active after what w have heard so far this weekend!! It's UNFAIR!! UNTHINKABLE!! UNACCEPTABLE!! Sincerely, "AWAKENED in LAKE FOREST"
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Dear Friends Just passing on a message from xxx. We were awakened by some type of flights this morning and we have doubled-paned windows upstairs! The test flights weren't supposed to begin until 10 AM so I don't know where those airplanes were from. I spent the next hour trying to determine who to call since this morning's L.A. Times made it sound like only the die-hard, anti-airport people had called in complaining, and not many of those. Their conclusion seemed to be that these tests were proving that mega-international airport noise is not a big deal to the average south county resident. Well, I can understand why they had few calls. It's not exactly easy to find how to contact someone. The numbers I did locate (OCN, L.A. Times Orange County Bureau, Clerk for the Orange County Supervisors) just rang and rang.... no way to leave a message. I'm embarrassed to say I am one of those average, non-vocal south county restidents who thought this would all go away so haven't done anything to voice my opposition -- at least not where it counts. We are strongly against it but haven't done ANYTHING fight it. So I'm passing this on in case you are like me and want to start saying something now. Hoping it's not too late, The fake noise tests this weekend were designed to divide south county...please don't let yourself be fooled by them....the flights were not realistic...(and still too loud at my house!), and they cannot simulate the air pollution, traffic, strip clubs, etc....that an airport will bring! So if you found the "Fake" noise tests this weekend as bad as we did, or even if you didn't....please take the time, to register your voice against the airport.
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At 12:12 on June 5th a plane literally shook my house as it went over head. Please change plans or flight paths!!!!!!! A very upset resident of Lake Forest.

Having lived in South Orange County since 1985, I have enjoyed the quality of life that I have come to expect from a well-planned and affluent community. The El Toro Marine Base has been a part of my experience since my move here, but in no way made me want to seek residence elsewhere. The reason behind my choice to co-reside with a Marine Base was based on the aircraft usage characteristics and associated curfews (yes, curfews were waived in times of political unrest and this was acceptable). Specifically the military aircraft would exhibit "clustered" activity that lasted for a short-duration followed by silence. Rarely were military flight activities noted after 10PM nor on weekends. Currently I reside in Aliso Viejo on a ridgeline that is adjacent to Laguna Beach's "Top-of-the-World" and Laguna Niguel. Having experienced Friday's commercial flight demonstrations, I was very surprised by the results and following are my observations: 1) The commercial aircraft were much lower than the military aircraft. 2) The commercial aircraft were much slower than the military aircraft. The actual tires were visible on the planes without wheel well coverings. 3) The commercial aircraft were quiet as they approached, but sound greatly intensified once overhead and while moving away. 4) The 747 and 767 exhibited unacceptable sound levels. 5) The smaller and newer 737 and A300 were not too obtrusive sound-wise, but still disruptive and ominous in appearance. Another alarming fact is that these planes will actually be louder during normal operation as Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) mode is used. Visual Flight Rules (VFR) mode was used during the demonstrations resulting in quieter operations especially with landings. Additionally, the demonstration included a partial compliment of aircraft types with partial payloads flying in ideal weather conditions. If airport development continues to proceed as planned, then my concern level will escalate exponentially. The demonstration experience has shifted my concerns FROM my property value TO my quality of life. Knowing the proposed operation characteristics of the proposed El Toro International Airport, the types of aircraft planned, and my perception during the demonstrations, I cannot co-reside with this airport. Although controversial, the demonstrations have proven valuable to me in that the experience was REAL and MUCH worse than I expected (much louder and lower than expected). Lastly, it was surprising how widely spread the impact was after having discussions with peers and friends throughout South Orange County. In my discussions, it appears that almost every South County City has seen and heard a jet overhead (again lower than expected), thus making South Orange County no longer a very attractive place to live. After the commercial aircraft flight demonstrations, the El Toro Airport conversion is no longer a property value issue, but quality of life issue!!
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As Fridays date for test flights approached, I could not have imagined how horrible its reality would truly be. We are located in the community of Three Arch Bay in Laguna Beach and have made our life here for over ten years. We have survived flood, fire, earthquake and toll road but have never wavered in our love of our community, and joy in our life here. Words cannot describe the doomed sinking feeling we felt as the first arriving flights begandirectly over our home and community. When we purchased our home, we did so with the realization that El Toro was an active airport base with jets and cargo plane flying overhead. The airport activity was limited with jets "coming home" at a days end. Cargo planes were few and far in between. I had a sense of American pride and safety of our military close by. I am have no pride in my community today. We did notpurchase a home under the flight path of a 24 hour every three minute landing commercial airport! We have been betrayed and served up by our officials, developers, and neighbors. How can you say the voting process has been fair: when so many unaffected by the decision direct the lives of we the "doomed" few directly over the flight path. My home has lost it's value, Laguna Beach has lostit's quality. The airport does not belong here, not anywhere. My fight has just begun, we won't be defeated simply because you think this airport is "best" for me.
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Hi We live in Northwood in Irvine. I've been hearing planes all Friday and Saturday from within the house. I was in my backyard at 12:15AM Saturday and heard one of the planes either take off or land. The noise was unbearable and I can only imagine how bad it will be if it last 24 hours 7 days a week. I live two miles from the flight path (and when the county eventually re-orients the runway to be parallel to Interstate 5, which they'll no doubt do after FAA pressure - the classic bait-and-switch maneuver - we'll be right in the flight path) and I am sure that the noise will be infinitely worse. I would like to know understand the purpose of these demo flights - apparently it is to show us south county people that these planes are not noisy. Well, now that the flights are happening and the county has actually shown that the planes are, in fact, pretty noisy, what next? Will they now shelve the airport plans? What was the purpose of these flights? If these demos did anything for me, they've made me more resolved to fight the airport to the fullest.
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Test fights We live in Aliso Viejo, supposedly outside the "noise footprint", and the noise fro the test flights is frightening. We haven't been actively involved in opposing the airport until now, but that is going to change. The audacity of these people in imposing this on our community is astounding. Felisa and Bob, Aliso Viejo, CA 92656
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The damned airport Well, the first 747 just went overhead at 7:30 pm tonight. The number that Leonard gave out was bogus. He wrote that noise abatement was at (949) 252-5158. I tried to get through, but got a stupid voice mail recording. I called John Wayne Airport and they gave me this (310) 715-3300 number for the FAA. It figures that the number just rang and rang. After all it is after 5PM and those government people don't work after that. Does anybody know of a number use to reach someone to complain? The Orange County Supervisors are sure gonna hear from me. They are damned poor excuses for public servants after selling out to big money developers. Thank you, Walt
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A No Vote for the El Toro Airport I was against the airport if for nothing else than the traffic that would be created prior to the flight test. Now that the flight test is in progress the noise is another good reason to vote NO! I was awoken this morning from the sound of the planes flying over from both Arrival and Departures. And have had to listen to them all day. I lived by LAX for too many years and have enjoyed the quite here in Mission Viejo and hope that you will vote not allow El Toro airport to be built. Thank You. Larry XXX 26542 XXX Mission Viejo Ca 92691
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June 4 & 5 airport testing I live on the lake in Mission Viejo and was startled by the 747 that flew overhead Friday morning at approx. 7:30 am. The plane did not land at El Toro and I could not "see" it but the noise inside my house was deafening. When I called to complain it was hard to get through, but with persistence and much calling around I was told this plane only passed by and did not land. Will future "wave offs" also go over my house? The future for South County is looking dim if this is what the new millennium has to offer. Todays noise has also been very disturbing and we have been indoors with double paned windows closed and the noise level is shocking. Outdoors it is incomprehensible to think our lives will be interrupted constantly by this pollution. Isn't Orange County first suppose to bethe place to live? No amount of sunshine can compete with peace and quiet-people can't live under these conditions. I also wonder who this airport is being built for? Many of Orange County's residence to the North will be more economically served by Ontario or Los Angeles. We who are closest to this proposal don't want it. If Newport Beach is so hot for an international airport let's expand John Wayne, put the freeway under the runway to allow for the "big" guys and do away with the time limitations. Let's try that first-the economics make sense-it will be cheaper to expand John Wayne. Once this is accomplished I believe it will surprise many at how many people still won't use these expensive alternatives to flying out of LA or Ontario. Also why isn't San Diego looking into this-they don't have an international airport-they need it before anyone here does-is anybody listening????
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Another Complaint Ladies and Gentlemen: I understand that you are too busy to respond given the response to the flights, but I offer my comments for the file. I live in Trabuco Canyon, and spent Saturday morning doing yardwork. I always wear ear protection while using the power mower. (Moldex Pura-Fit to be Tried #6800) with a 31dB noise reduction rating. With the mower off, the east-bound Airbus flight was loud enough to be heard through my hearing protection!!! I realize that this may not be a scientific measurement, but I know loud when I hear it! If I had been involved in a conversation, we would have had to pause to allow the noise level to subside before continuing. According to the press, the aircraft used on Saturday were supposed to be quieter! Quieter, more powerful aircraft, flying unloaded, leaving a smaller noise footprint, not needing to throttle up -- and still, this amount of noise was generated. The only conclusion that I can draw is that this test is a farce. I only hope that the public backlash from this demonstration will backfire in the faces of the airport proponents.
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no airport stop the airport
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Test Flights A few thoughts on the test flights: 1. I was suprised at how low in altitude the planes flew in Ranch Santa Margarita (5-8 , miles away). 2. I noticed that the flights could not even keep to a set schedule, even after the weather improved. 3. What, no 747's on Saturday? I wonder why. 4. Why so few departures to the east? I thought that his represents 70% of the take-offs. The test flights are a sham. Put me on your e-mail list. Please keep up the good work.
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Demo Flight Noise! Sirs: We got home in time to hear the flights on June 4 at 9:55, 10:30 & 23:05 pm. We had our windows closed and for each flight it was necessary to turn up our TV volume to hear and understand our TV. Not only is it disturbing to hear the noise from the aircraft, but we will also have to increase the volume of our music and TV to hear our programs. During the evening, this will disturb our neighbors and add to the total undesirable affect of an El Toro Airport. When summer is here and we have our windows open all day and night, the disturbance from these aircraft will be continuous and undesirable. Even the aircraft on Saturday June 5 were heard indoors and disturbed our TV for the following flights while we were at home: 5:00, 5:53, 5:57, 6:12 and 6:17 pm. We live in Leisure World and are about 1/2 mile off the flight path and I am sure that anyone between us and the flight path will have trouble sleeping and hearing normal conversation, music or TV programs during overflights of the kind we had during the demo. Conrad XXX [Laguna Woods, CA]
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Aircraft Pollution --- While visiting Knott's Berry Farm today one of the crafts demonstrators was a foromer Newport Beach Resident on Mesa Dr. in the Back Bay. She said that partcular dirt from aircraft had to be hosed off the patio every day. That's one source of pollution that was little covered in the environmental impact report. Friday while waiting for the 747 morning takoff which never happened, I met a Newport Beach Resident who sells airplane modifications, driving a car with license plate "Anders". He's typical of the airport proponents that have their own self-interests driving them and don't care about the the degradation of the quality of life which an airport could bring to others.
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Voice of the people? Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:34:07 -0700 There is something wrong when only five people decide the fate of Orange County. I am educated. I vote my conscience. I know right from wrong. None of this seems to matter when it comes to the El Toro airport. Most of the people I know have always been against the airport development but still, the project advances. Does anyone listen to what we say? I have lived in Orange County almost my entire life and I can't believe this is really happening. It is so obvious that the proponents are trying to "snow" the people with these inaccurate tests. They think that we will be fooled into believing that the airport won't be that bad. These tests do not reflect the noise level that will actually occur when the airport is fully operational. These tests do not take into consideration the strain that will be put on our freeways and the inevitable soot created by the jets. Who are they kidding? Do they think that we are that stupid? This whole project is all about money and nothing else. Those who have it want more and at any cost. They don't care about the effects on the quality of life in southern county. They don't care about the people...period. We don't want it! This is wrong! Is anyone listening
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Flight Demos We've been duped again! When the airport committee published their first planned northerly takeoff patterns more than a year ago, people here in the hills of north Tustin and Orange were quite upset, since planes were set to head directly toward us. This raucous caused the board to find another, less objectionable 34north pattern - one that would go straight out over Irvine lake then turn left over the 91 fwy. This second "less objectionable" pattern was not what I viewed Friday as I watched three flight demonstrations of 34 north takeoffs from my home which faces the Peter's Canyon Regional Park. Each plane flew over Tustin Ranch and traveled along the transportation corridor (Jamboree Blvd.) directly toward Tustin, Orange and Villa Park. The planes made a left turn at about Chapman Ave. Many of the local residents I spoke to were as surprised as I. We were led to believe the planes would be at least four miles east of us in order to go out over Irvine lake. Instead they were only about a mile and a half away. They were as large as a blimps passing over a sport stadium. Oh, and the noise. Yes, they say like a vacuum cleaner, only these are Hoover windtunnels in the hands of angels vacuuming the clouds about and around you. Logan XXX Tustin, CA 92780 USA
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Test flights: No load on landing? --- I understand that the el-toro test flights aircrafts are loaded before take off. I gues that means that they land with no load. A common sense would dictate that you need to apply more engine power to land the same loaded aircraft then empty, and therefore generate more noise. If this is correct, why no body points to this deception?
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Letter to the Editor --- Dear Editor, How dare the Orange County Register print a 600+ word letter in support of the proposed El Toro Airport from Courtney Wiercioch one day after the flight test debacle. At least you could have printed one of the many contrary opinions. I would like to address the many inaccuracies in her letter. Perhaps you could print it here, since Courtney Wiercioch does not accept email from unknown sources (her computer system sends it back). Clearly, the most blatant untruth in her letter is her underestimation of the number of residents negatively impacted by noise from air traffic arriving and departing El Toro. There are more than a million people who will be negatively affected by an airport at El Toro, although Courtney Wiercioch will not be one of them. She admits they are relying on outdated scientific data which uses the 65 CNEL metric. Time to get updated Courtney, there is just as much scientific data to show 65 CNEL is damaging. And there ARE schools within this range. Experts acknowledge that constant noise at 65 CNEL (about average conversational levels) can have an effect on stress, sleep patterns and learning. The longer you are exposed to a damaging level, the greater the eventual hearing loss. There is a scientifically proven relationship between how long you are exposed to noise and the damage done. The continued reference to "huge" noise buffers surrounding the proposed El Toro airport is both misleading and meaningless. These buffers are based on the absurd statistic of average noise levels. Averaging noise over a 24 hour period is of little value. This is a completely irresponsible and insensitive attempt to diminish opposition to an airport at El Toro. The real problem is constant exposure to high noise levels, interrupted only by scheduled noise well above acceptable levels. Courtney suggests the flight demonstrations would help residents understand what a plane will sound like overhead. For a cool $1.3 Million, we now have evidence that airplanes are loud. I listened to the airplanes arrive directly over Oak Grove Elementary School . We could not hear ourselves think. How in the world are the children in the school supposed to hear their teacher? The number of flights was ridiculously low, representing less than 3% of the proposed flight volume. This did very little to provide an example of what life would be like living next door to an El Toro Airport. Imagine a constant stream of airplanes, 24 hours per day. Courtney Wiercioch professed the tests were performed without any bias or attempt to deceive the public. She altruistically accuses a writer of being slanderous! The flight tests were delayed on June 4th due to "weather conditions". Would it not have been appropriate to conduct the test on a "typical" June day? Or is it simply the cloud cover would have accentuated the noise levels. I tried to call the County, only their voice mailbox was full. Nothing was done to prepare for public feedback. This only provides further evidence of the Board's practice of operating under non-disclosure. I can not wait to hear the Board report they received very little noise complaints. On Saturday, The Register quoted a number of airport supporters who felt the noise was not so bad, as long as the planes were not flying over their homes. These people have no concern for how their actions impact others. This is sadly representative of prevailing attitudes in our society. Courtney Wiercioch feels that as long as more people benefit than suffer, any action is justified. Thank you Courtney, for showing us how little you care for your fellow human beings. Sincerely, Doug XXX Aliso Viejo
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this airport would be a disaster!!! --- How convenient that the voice mailboxes were full. Another "scientific" measure of the public acceptance of this disastrous idea! I could hear them loud and clear in Northwood. We do get some small planes and some traffic from JWA, I guess, but I can't imagine putting up with this 24 hours a day. And supervisor Smith concedes in Sunday's LA Times, that "some" homes may have to be insulated. Why not lock us inside, since they are at it? or give us earplugs when we venture in the backyard. Let's get organized, people! and sign the Safe and Healty Communities petition.
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More on the demo flights -- Hi We live in Northwood in Irvine. I've been hearing planes all Friday and Saturday from within the house. I was in my backyard at 12:15AM Saturday and heard one of the planes either take off or land. The noise was unbearable and I can only imagine how bad it will be if it last 24 hours 7 days a week. I live two miles from the flight path (and when the county eventually re-orients the runway to be parallel to Interstate 5, which they'll no doubt do after FAA pressure - the classic bait-and-switch maneuver - we'll be right in the flight path) and I am sure that the noise will be infinitely worse. I would like to know understand the purpose of these demo flights - apparently it is to show us south county people that these planes are not noisy. Well, now that the flights are happening and the county has actually shown that the planes are, in fact, pretty noisy, what next? Will they now shelve the airport plans? What was the purpose of these flights? If these demos did anything for me, they've made me more resolved to fight the airport to the fullest. Sincerely Nallan XXX
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El Toro Noise When Donald Bren and the Irvine company wanted to build 3,200 homes in Laguna Canyon, they paid no attention to a bunch of tree hugging zealots from Laguna Beach opposing the Canyon's development. But when 6,000 people marched along Laguna Canyon Road to a rally, and subsequent groups picketed (for days on end) the entrance to Lido Isle (Donald Bren's Home) the mighty Irvine Co. came to the table in a big way. Can you imagine the impact of thousands of well dressed families marching in front of the cameras chanting the names of the pro airport supervisors? Even George Argyros doesn't want that kind of publicity. Email and nasty phone calls will be ignored. The supervisors expect thousands of email/phone messages protesting the noise levels from these tests. It is imperative to take the protest to the next level quickly. Where does Chuck Smith live? Perhaps a picketing vigil will wake his neighbors up. Boom boxes accurately simulating what Mr. Smith would hear if HIS house were in the flight pattern might be interesting. I'm a guy with limited time but would chip in a few bucks toward the cause. Send out letters RIGHT NOW to every resident of Three Arch Bay, Monarch Bay, Ritz Cove and all other affected communities. The war chest would rise VERY quickly. These neighborhoods are buzzing tonight with all the talk about the impact on quality of life (not to mention property values) if this airport becomes reality. Act fast while the jets are still ringing in the ears of the residents. I can envision a concert at Salt Creek Beach or the park in Niguel attended by a HUGE throng of families. It would draw National attention if properly handled and I believe the supervisors would be forced to revisit the options. Good Luck, Mark
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PR Effort-El Toro Hi Mike, I'm deeply concerned about the environmental and lifestyle effect the proposed airport will have on our community. I choose to live in South Orange County because of several key reasons. South Orange County is a community of natural landscaping and beauty that has not been overdeveloped. The natural beauty is clean and fresh. The crime rate is low and people generally feel safe in their homes and parks. If an airport is allowed to be developed, much unwanted change will fall upon our neighborhoods. Yes, jobs and business will be created, but what kind of jobs and business you ask yourself. Jobs that will consist of low pay and businesses that consist of nude bars and cheap motels. I feel that crime will surely rise in the area. One only needs to look to LAX for examples. I attempted to call the airport abatement noise phone number to register my comments. However I was shocked to discover that the voice message box was filled. I believe this would have been a good opportunity for opponents of the airport to raise this issue. The public was told to call in and register complaints. The county phone system has not allowed for residents to do so. The question is "Why?" So now is the time for answers. I challenge the board of supervisors to come clean and start answering those tough questions. Mike, I propose that you use your resources to claim back our community from these rapists that corrupt our way of life. Tim XXX Mission Viejo, CA
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Under the plane --- Could not belive the site. Under the belly of a plane, and this will be going on many times over, each day. Does any of our representatives live under the flight path?
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the 'test' flights --- I wanted to voice my very vehement opposition to the creation of a civilian, commercial airport at El Toro. I live in Laguna Niguel and was upset to hear, last Friday and Saturday, the noise of airplanes over my house. I did not move to this area to hear commercial aircraft fly over head. I moved here in 1988 from Birch Street in Santa Ana Heights. One of the reasons I moved out of the back bay area was the airport noise. I was unable to hold conversations with my neighbors or talk on the phone to someone. I remember how many times I said to someone I was having a phone conversation with, "Please wait, there's a plane taking off and I can't hear you". I will not live like that again. In addition to the horrific noise pollution caused by airport traffic, there is also the air pollution and traffic congestion issues. What has the air quality management group said about the air pollution? How many people will have to suffer with unclean air in the surrounding area in order to accomodate the people in Newport? Additionally, the El Toro 'Y' area already has massive traffic congestion problems and I don't see that getting any better. Have traffic studies been done to determine the real impact of airport traffic at the 'Y'? Finally, I travel by air for business frequently and find John Wayne airport a clean, well run airport and one which is generally very uncrowded. I don't see the need for an additional airport now or in the future. If I need to fly internationally I do the drive (one hour) to LAX; I don't find the drive inconvenient. In closing I would like to know who is going to compensate homeowners for the loss in property value if the airport does go through. I saw what happened to the home values in Santa Ana heights when the airport grew larger. Why are the supervisors so hell bent on repeating this devastating process again?
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address to complain --- hi there, where can I get an email address to complain about the airplane noise over the weekend? We lived in Point Loma under the flight pattern. When we moved to Laguna Hills there were no planes flying low over our house and don't want to hear that type of noise again. thank you
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The Day After --- Oh Happy Day... Today my neighbors and I had a conversation over the fence of our one year old homes in Aliso Viejo... What the hell are we going to do? My wife is pregnant with our first child, we love our home in AV. We love AV. We love our neighbors in AV. I drive to Los Angeles and Ventura Counties daily... I come home every night to AV because it's a special place to live. We want to raise our kids here. We want to buy our second, bigger home here someday. Now, we have the airport issue... I take that back, it's not an issue, it's a crisis. This airport cannot go through, it's simply not realistic for the area. Economics cannot ruin the lives of thousands of South County residents. To put it in terms we all can understand and identify with, it sucks. Rick and Robin XXX Aliso Viejo
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El Toro Airport Noise --- I just read a quote from Chuck Smith (pro-airport Supervisor), in which he states the following: - "reasonable people, not the no-airport, no-way radicals" - will help guide the county about noise in other communities. I consider myself a reasonable person and let me tell you what the demonstration taught me. I live in Dana Point (near Salt Creek Beach). According to the airport proponents, we are not even "impacted" by the noise at all. I would like an explanation why I came home Friday night to find my wife crying in our beautiful home, because a lightly loaded 747 Jet had just passed overhead and rattled the windows. I would like to ask Chuck Smith the question. Do you, or do you not, think it is reasonable to have a happy wife? Do you, or do you not, think that our house that we have put virtually all of our assets in, gone through three remodels (at great expense and personal sweat labor), should have jets flying over it every few minutes, 24 hours a day? The airport proponents quickly point out that we purchased a house that had military jets fly over it. That is true. BUT, the military jets almost never flew at night (except the Gulf War). Most of the time, there was maybe one flight per hour during the day. Some days, there were no flights at all. This is not a reasonable comparison to the massive and continuous proposed flight schedule. Chuck Smith, in his infinite arrogance, would like to label me a "no-airport, no-way radical" and therefore justify dispensing with my opinion. I could not disagree more. This demonstration taught me a lesson, I will not easily forget. Commercial airplanes, even lightly loaded ones, make a lot of noise! I am reminded of an expression that says, "if a shoe fits, wear it". Perhaps Chuck Smith's pro-airport, under any circumstances radical opinion should be the one that we dispense with.
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airport --- I am writing regarding the testing for the proposed airport. I live in Laguna Niguel in the the Kite Hill area. I heard and observed the flights on June 4th and 5th. They were loud, easily seen and very annoying. However, I am more concerned about their effect on the schools in Aliso Viejo that my children attend and will attend for the next several years. The noise and pollution levels are not acceptable. Our children need to be protected from the effects of airport noise and pollution. I am definitely against the airport being built and believe other uses of the area should continue to be explored.
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Noise from El Toro --- Thank you for this forum. The County management obviously doesn't want to accept input from all of the shocked and upset residents of South County who are impacted by this proposed airport. I have lived in Lake Forest for over 13 years and previously lived in Laguna Hills for the previous 10 years. The military airport was no comparison to the constant noise, POLLUTION and traffic this commercial airport will generate. The jet noise in the daytime at my home is a definite annoyance, however, worse than that will be the noise from late night and early morning flights while my family and neighbors are trying to sleep. Late at night there is no cancelling noise to offset the jet noise so it will be magnified many times the daytime level. AND this will be constant according to the county volume proposals. Along with all of this noise will be thousands of tons of pollution released in our area. Every time a jet takes off, comes in to land and touches down(look at the clouds of burned rubber) more and more pollutants are released here. They delayed Friday's flights because of our late night and early morning clouds that are common here during the spring and summer months. Won't they also have safety issues with the fog bank the snakes up the Saddleback Valley in the winter months and covers the base. AND what about the annual TORNADOS that strike the Lake Forest and South Irvine area. Lucky's warehouse lost part of its roof a few years ago and residential garage roofs and trees have been blown away by these strong winds. The mouth of this valley is not the place to put this International Airport. Register a very strong NEGATIVE from Lake Forest concerning this airport fiasco. John XXX, Lake Forest.
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demonstration flights --- Dear Sirs' I watched and listened to the demonstration flights Friday and Saturday with interest as my wife and I live in Aliso Viejo. The planes appeared to be landing at a much slower speed that allowed them to land much quieter. My mother lives in Inglewood, underneath the flight path for the north runway of LAX, and I watched those planes land at a much faster speed today. They were also much louder than the false demonstration that was offered to the residents over the last two days. I feel we are being sold a false demonstration and this airport should not be allowed to continue. Thank you, Terry XXXX Aliso Viejo resident
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Airport Noise Test --- We had a Laguna Niguel golf course condominium in escrow until Saturday. The buyers spent the day sitting on the patio during the test flight schedule. Before the end of the day, they notified their real estate agent that they wanted out of the deal which has been in escrow since the middle of May. Is this a sign of what will happen if the planned airport becomes a relaity? If there are any questions regarding this matter, please feel free to contact me. I will also contact O.C. County Supervisors with this information when I have their E-mail addresses. Respectfully, Paul & Katherine XXX
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----To whom it may concern, The airplanes averaged almost 80 decibles in Aliso Viejo with a lighter than average load. With passengers and more fuel, it will surely be louder. This level of noise is not acceptable in housing areas, day or night. It's time to pursue the Millenium Plan. Bernard XXXX Aliso Viejo, CA 92656
Concerned Aliso Viejo resident
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To whom it may concern, After the recent flight tests the past weekend I would like to know how to join the force against the airport. Do the residents of Orange County have a say in the matter or does the decision rest in the hands of greedy developers and business people? Sincerely, Guy XXXX
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Outraged over Flight Demonstrations --- I was outraged to see the flight demonstrations fly right over our heads in Aliso Viejo over the weekend. We have such a nice community that can be destroyed by noise, polutions, congestion, and saftey concerns. Supervisor Charles Smith has to be crazy to offer us better insulation for our homes. Are we supposed to hide in our house all day with the windows all closed. What kind of living is this????? Mr. Smith you are trying to put an airport on our childrens lawns. How can you do this. It is all GREED. We do not need to bring in 30+ million to lep our economy. We have the lowest unemployment than ever. Don't kid us. If an airport is here, you will destroy the QUALITY OF LIFE. We will fight this until the end. Put the airport out where it belongs - San Bernardino or Riverside for starters!!! Brian XXXX Aliso Viejo, CA
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Outraged over Flight Demonstrations --- I just cannot understand how the three supervisors (who are for the airport) can justify GREED over QUALITY OF LIFE. I also find it surprising that if Courtney Wiercioch had a relative that died in the Loma Linda Mountain range, why she is for an airport that is in the middle of our backyards! My daughter of 16 months was in tears when the planes flew over our house this past weekend. All of you bureaucrats care only for yourselves and MONEY (or revenue - your politically correct term). Are we all lazy where we can't travel more than 30 minutes to an airport? You have Long Beach, Ontario, John Wayne, LAX, etc. This is a travesty to the beauty that Orange County had. First the Orange trees are gone...now the residents will be forced to leave.I live in Aliso Viejo where we have a nice new community. The bottom line is that a commercial airport in Orange County will give us pollution, congestion, and noise. You will destroy Orange County. We DO NOT need 34 million more people a year to keep our economy going strong as this is what all the bureaucrat's keep saying. We are doing fine now and we will do even better in the future (without a commercial airport). What is an extra 30-60 minutes to an airport? Are we that lazy? I AM PLEADING AND HOPING THAT ONE OF THE THREE (3) SUPERVISORS THAT ARE FOR THE AIRPORT WILL SEE HOW MUCH HARM WILL COME (INCLUDING TO MY FAMILY) AND WILL CHANGE THEIR VOTE TO NO. NO AIRPORT. Please consider your family, fresh air, and a beautiful environment, rather than a monstrous airport. The new Denver airport was not put in downtown!!!!!!!! There are just too many other areas to put an airport. Sincerely, Brian ,Cher and Erica (16 months old), Aliso Viejo,CA
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Flight tests --- Does the County Supervisors actually think us in South Orange County are idiots! I went over to Oak Creek Golf Course on Saturday and watched some of the Northerly departures. These guys were doing even more of a power climb out than what they do at John Wayne and then cutting power just like at John Wayne. Also why didn't they fly the heavy aircraft on Saturday? Because everyone would be home and the visibility higher. We need to rid ourselves of the Supervisors. Has there been any more talk of getting out of the County? I also agree with others, the vote should have been only with the people who have said that people in Fullerton or Los Alimitos should have no right in voting for something that is in our backyards, not theirs. Also my parents bought into Mission Viejo in 1967. The marine base was there. We learned to live with the marine aircraft but we will not tolerate an internation airport and those Newporters should keep there mouths and wallets shut. They knew that John Wayne would be a commercial airport.
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Noise Study --- I had a 747 fly over my house and called to complain to the noise complaint number. I hears the jet engines from inside my house over the loud noise of a leaf blower being used by my gaedener. I did get a real person on the line, but when I asked them why the closest noise sensor to my house was 2 miles away at Salt Creek, they said they couldn't have sensors everywhere. Does it make sense to put noise sensors 2 miles from the flight path of the loudest jet they were going to test? I'm outraged. Craig XXX Laguna Beach, CA
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News update list --- Please add me to your news update list I monitor this e-mail address more often than my I noticed the flight tests favored quiter aircraft but the thought did not jel in my mind until I read your 6/5/99 posting. the DB readings I logged in my back yard proved the same. It is my understanding that an airport can not limit which aircraft can takeoff and land as long as the plane does not exceed the weight limits of the runway. For example, although impractical, a small single engine Cessna can land and take off at LAX. I assume that if El Toro were turned into a commercial airport, small corporate aircraft could not be excluded from it's use. My experience working in an office next to the Irvine Mariott for the past fifteen years is that these planes make a GREAT amount of noise when taking off. None of these planes was used in the test. So how valid was it? Thanks Wayne XXXX
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Testing --- I live in Laguna Niguel in the community of Kite Hill. During the test flights demonstration I remained at home to experience first hand the noise level of the planes. I was appalled at the disturbing roar of engine noise emitted by each plane. It was definitely a level of noise that would disrupt my life and peace of mind. I had the windows closed and could hear the roar. When I went outside the noise was intolerable. This is unacceptable to think if the airport was put into operation to have this horrible sound continually. No community should be subjected to such nonsense. Those who think it is not an issue, should live in the flight path and be exposed to NON STOP noise pollution. STOP EL TORO AIRPORT NOW!!!

REMEMBER THE CERRITOS CRASH????? --- NEED I SAY MORE?????? AREN'T THEY PUTTING US IN THE SAME DANGER???? THE PLANES LINE UP MILES BEFORE LANDING AT EL TORO FLYING OVER THOUSANDS OF OUR HOMES,,,,,,AND SCHOOLS!!!!!!! ACCIDENTS DO HAPPEN!!!!! AND GIVEN ALL THE WEATHER AND GEOLOGICAL LIMITATIONS THESE PILOTS WILL FACE LANDING AT EL TORO I IMAGINE A TRAGIC ACCIDENT IS VERY LIKELY SOONER OR LATER!!!! BUT.....WHAT NEIGHBORHOOD WILL IT BE???????MINE???????YOURS???????NOT THAT OF THE MAJORITY WHO VOTED IN FAVOR OF THE AIRPORT SURELY!! THE AIRPORT IS A TERRIFYING OPTION!!!!!!
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Noise --- My family and I live near Lake Mission Viejo. We were shocked and sadly disappointed at the noise level during the tests on Saturday afternoon. How could this have gotten so far and what can we do to help stop it?
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Flight demonstration results ---Perhaps I've just overlooked this, but I'm interested in the results of the test for the easterly departing flights. Those results were not published in Sunday's paper (there was a notation that those results were not yet available). If the runways would need to be relocated for safety reasons, what is the consensus opinion on how they would be positioned?
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letters to the editor ---How is it that in yesterday's (6/6) commentary section, their was a 2 column letter to the editor by the reuse manager, Courtney something, in which it says that the test proved everything that the county wanted to prove. It was written in the past tense, as if after the flight test, but didn't take into account what the flight test said. In in, she wrote that it proved that no home or school was in a location over 65 dcb. I don't believe that was proven, as the register reported yesterday and saturday, readings up to 101 dcb. That seems rather underhanded, as is everything the county is trying to put over on us. Has anyone thought about seceeding from the county. We certainly have the population and the tax base to support our own county. I for one am tired of everything that the supervisors up in north county want to put over on us, so that our quality of life will be more like Santa Ana. We live here for our quality of life and we pay dearly in terms of home prices, Mello Roos, etc to have it. I think that would be our best bet. And chances are if we threatened to form our own county, the board would think twice about loosing their tax base. Thanks for listening. Anything I can do to help. Marion XXXX
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ElToro Flight Tests --- As concerned citizens of Mission Viejo, my husband and I are against the proposal for a new airport. Our fears were demonstrated this past weekend by the tests involving various aircraft. The constant humming/droning of the planes made it all seem too real as what we will be subjected to should the airport proposal pass. We also feel that different weather conditions would change the noise level of the planes, ie, on very warm days vs. cooler days. Unfortunately we had to keep our windows closed this weekend as to not experience the disturbance from the planes. Why, when we have John Wayne Airport, Ontario, Long Beach, LAX and San Diego Airports all within 20 minutes to 1 1/2 hrs do we need another airport. We strongly support a NO El Toro Airport in our neighborhood. Sinerely, Don & Linda XXX Mission Viejo, CA 92692
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- --- I live at 21 XXX Way in Aliso Viejo and was very interested in the test flights over the weekend. I believe that from the time I got home from work at 7:00 p.m. Friday night, I heard and/or saw every incoming flight. The first two, both 747's at 7:30 and 8:15, startled me at how low, close to my house and LOUD they were. I was much worse than I ever immagined. Until that time I believed that it wouldn't really affect me and that it would be just a very minor inconvenience. I was wrong! These two planes, in particular, were extremely loud. I am worried about two things; my sleep and my property value. I am now strongly opposed to this plan and would like to know what I can do to fight its development.
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Rection To El Toro Test Flights --- My family and I witnessed the El Toro test flights from our home in Laguna Niguel, approximately 17 miles from the airport. Planes flew directly overhead. We could hear them approaching from within our house with windows closed and the TV on. All planes were loud, and the larger, lower flying planes dominated the sky. The tests leave no doubt that an operational airport at El Toro will greatly harm our quality of life and depreciate the value of our home. Sound insulation may protect us from noise indoors, but my backyard, which is where we spend much of our time, will become unusable. Richard XXXX Laguna Niguel, CA 92677
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El T --- I live in Laguna Niguel and can handle the noise during the day, but cannot put up with having planes fly over my orohouse at 1,2,3,4,5 o'clock in the morning and neither could you. This is why SNA closes at 11:00pm. An international airport right in the middle of a densely populated suburban area of Orange County is just ludicrous! It wreaks of ill will by our local politicians. Do you realize what will come with an international airport? Just look at Century Blvd at LAX!! The sad part is that I realize that it will all come down to who has the most political clout. What can I do to convince you that this airport will not be good for South Orange County? I have no problem driving to LAX or using SNA when I need to, just like most business travelers. LAX will be expanding in the coming years and SNA is not at capacity. We have got to come up with a better use of El Toro. Bob XXX
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Just one more upset person! --- I don't need a response, but I must express my horror at the test flights last weekend. After rattling windows and drowning out my conversations, I almost cried as I thought about having to listen to that every few minutes of every hour of every day in my beautiful home. If I wanted to live under the flight path of an international airport, I would have moved to EL SEGUNDO!! Let our children grow up knowing they live in a beautiful, peaceful place instead of hearing stories of how wonderful it was before we allowed it to be ruined by a another LAX.
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NO ON EL TORO --- STOP THOSE DESPICABLE FLIGHTS OVER MY HOME. WE DON'T NEED THIS ABUSE IN OUR LIVES.
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RADICALS --- The weekend noise was bad enough, but when Supervisor Smith calls everyone that disagrees with the airport and calls us Radicals, HE HAS GONE TO FAR. We in the South County want what is best for the county but there has not been a meaningfull survey thst indicats we really do need a new airport. No airlines not even freight companys are pushing for it. The only ones pushing are the three RADICAL Supervisors and the Newport Beach Mafia. It also seems that the Supervisors are begining to show their true intentions. If you check the map for flights you will notice that a departure from El Toro will intersect the approch to John Wayne. So much for two airport idea. Did you hear the noise Anahiem Hills and points North. Orange County is doing fine. Companys are investing in the county. Fluor is moving to a new building. Allergan is investing 70 million for new buildings. Stop wasting taxpayers money. You just opened a new parking structure at John Wayne. Are you gpoing to throw it away? Put the money to a better use!! We have been through one bankruptcy. Do you want to try for two??
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Ek Toro Airport --- Gentlemen, I have been gathering signatures for the Safe and Healthy Communities Initiative for several weeks now in Laguna Niguel and there was a 50% increase in the number of people signing per hour during and after the flight demonstrations and interestingly, a number of them told me, that they weren't able to lodge noise complaints because the county's "Flight Test Noise Complaint Line" simply wouldn't take any messages. I experienced the same problem and I found it astounding to read in the Times on Saturday that the county claimed to have gotten very few calls. No wonder, they weren't taking any! Kai XXX
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El Toro Airport Test flights - June 4-5 --As Fridays date for test flights approached, I could not have imagined how horrible its reality would truly be. We are located in the community of Three Arch Bay in Laguna Beach and have made our life here for over ten years. We have survived flood, fire, earthquake and toll road but have never waivered in our love of our community,and joy in our life here. Words cannot describe the doomed sinking feeling we felt as the first arriving flights began directly over our home and community. When we purchased our home, we did so with the realization that El Toro was an active airport base with jets and cargo plane flying overhead. The airport activity was limited with jets "coming home" at a days end. Cargo planes were few and far in between. I had a sense of American pride and safety of our military close by. I am have no pride in my community today. We did not purchase a home under the flight path of a 24 hour,every four minute landing (360 flights daily ) commerical airport! We have been betrayed and served up by our officials, developers, and neighbors. How can you say the voting process has been fair: when so many unaffected by the decesion direct the lives of we the "doomed" few directly over the flight path.. My children will be exposed to harmfull pollutants, my home has lost it's value, Laguna Beach has lost it's quality. The airport does not belong here, not anywhere. My fight has just begun, I won't be defeated simply because you think this airport is "best" for me. David and Joni XXX Laguna Beach
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Airport Noise --- My name is Tim XXX and along with my wife and two daughters live in Aliso Viejo. When we moved to Aliso Viejo we were warned that there was potential for an airport. We didn't know that it would effect us as badly as the planes landing this past weekend showed. It seemed that the larger planes were especially noisey. It is difficult to understand the pro-airport thinking. The overall county impact may be good for revenue but certainly bad for the environment. We in south county will be especially hurt with added polution both noise and air, reduced property values, more traffic and what always seems to follow large airports, crime. The response that the voters want an airport is ridiculous. Almost half the people in Orange County don't want the airport. This small margin, voted on before many of the south county residents realized what the impact would be, should not be enough to go forward. The Board needs to reevaluate what's best for the county as a whole and not just what a small margin greater that half wants. Don't ruin our lives!
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El Toro --- I am a resident of the Top Of The World community in Laguna Beach and my children attend the Top Of The World Elementary School which overlooks the Woods Canyon Park. The school, which is situated at approx. 1000' above sea level was bombarded by jet noise on friday and saturday during the flight tests. I would like to know why the County noise consultant Vnce mestre, who is a Laguna Beach resident, and has children that atttned the school did not see that any noise monitoring equipment was placed at the school. The noise of the jets that the children would have to endure was overwhelming, there is no way school could be held under conditions like that. Mike XXX

Noise --- I'm writting to you in opposition of the proposed El toro International Airport in Orange County California. We heard the noise from our home in Laguna Niguel on Friday evening and we had a hard time enjoying Salt Creek Beach on Saturday. I can't understand why doing this to our community is even a possibility. People in this area have worked too hard and paid too much for their homes to have jets flying overhead 24 hours a day. Sincerely, Tim XXX Laguna Niguel Homeowner
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No to El Toro Airport ---Unsafe over Laguna Niguel Too loud over Laguna Niguel Too expensive to compensate homeowners for soundproofing. Diminishes the home values. Say NO THANKS TO El Toro Airport Aircraft
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Fuel and Pollution --No mention has been made about how the aircraft fuel will be supplied. There is presently a pipeline that carries jet fuel to El Toro but it is insufficient to handle the quantity and size of aircraft proposed. It can handle the small military aircraft. That means that another pipeline would be needed or the existing one would need to be enlarged. What housing developments would be impacted and what are the environmental impacts? I have seen numbers of 800 flights per day. That would be a landing and take-off every 2-3 minutes on a 24 hour basis. That means the noise pollution would be constant. One or more planes will have their engines running all the time. This will also add to the air pollution.
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we are at war! Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 17:48:06 +0200 I am a resident of northwoood Irvine since 1981, my wife and I raised our family here, we invested in our home and thru several job losses, struggled and survived. Survived for what? so we can look out our window and less than 2 miles away watch a 747 blasting thru the air at less than 1000ft, thundering and smoking. Can a ruthless few supervisors do this to our neighborhood? We must not let them do this to us, who will buy our homes when we get ready to leave. Please every one that can read this letter, do something to help us win this battle. Who will pay for the damage to us after these few rotten eggs leave office and we are left with this nightmare. We all paid dearly for our city, our taxes are the highest in the county. Here is a suggestion, we organize a march to the county city hall and demonstrate like every one else does when they are being gunned down by our government. What do you say? can this web site carry this message to all our neighbors? a million man march can do a lot of convincing. Please respond If this makes sense! I read all the complaints mailed in and am happy to here so many. I will keep on getting signatures for the "safe and healthy communities Initiative". Another suggestion, can we recall these few in office that can't govern this county? please include this letter to the county supervisors, thank you, If anyone wishes to see my home video of a 747 taking off over Irvine Blvd. @ 500 ft let me know by contacting this web page. I will respond to you. I would like to thank the Honorable Todd Spitzer of district 3, the Honorable Thomas Wilson district 5 for there honesty and great integrity in working for the good of this county. and every one who helps to save the south county from becoming another LAX community.
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Another letter Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 18:16:56 -0700 The Orange County El Toro airport vision statement sets forth a goal of "enhancing the quality of life for ALL residents of the County." The noise test clearly proves this is not possible and will destroy the quality of life for many residents. Thus, based on their own vision statement, they should immediately drop consideration of El Toro and began serious study on other alternatives--one that ALL Orange County citizens can support. Unless, of course, the three pro-airport Supervisors and county planners believe that maintaining the quality of life is "too extremist" or perhaps even "too radical." Steven XXX A "radical" in favor of a a happy, healthy family neighborhood. Aliso Viejo
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no more flight at MCAS El Toro Wed, 09 Jun 1999 13:14:54 -0700 WHAT DOES THE FLIGHT DEMONSTRATION TELL US ABOUT HOW RESIDENTS WILL EXPERIENCE AIRCRAFT NOISE? The El Toro committee which supports the new airport would have us believe that “noise is subjective. Some people are bothered by audible noise and others sleep through the sound of noisy trucks rumbling past their bedroom windows” (http://www.eltorofacts.org). Obviously, the El Toro committee that desires this project has a different perspective from those who will be most heavily impacted by the decision. Documentation from the recent test flights now provide us with accurate data from which to make our assessment of this impact. Based on the data collected at the noise detection site located at Jeffrey Road and Portola Parkway, Wieland Associates, an authority in acoustics, obtained the following decibel (dB) measurements from the flights: 69.0, 70.6, 67.2, 68.8, 70.6, 69.0, 67.2, 68.8, 69.0, 60.7, 65.2. Our government defines safe residential noise levels as being below 55 decibels. Alarmingly, additional monitors from residents who were present at the same location indicated readings in excess of 90 decibels (Orange County Register, News 20, Sunday, June 6, 1999; News 1, Saturday, June 5, 1999). This does not take into consideration other environmental pollutants such as jet fuel exhaust and magnetic waves. In addition, little consideration has been given to the increased traffic congestion which will occur in neighborhoods adjacent to the airport. Based upon the evidence provided by the recent test flights, we strongly oppose any measure which will bring these planes over our homes. While these planes recently departed over our neighborhood children had to stop playing so that they could cover their ears from the excessive noise which was created by these test flights. It is disconcerting to us to realize that if the El Toro airport is developed, these planes will fly over our homes every 3–5 minutes. Scientific evidence has proven that constant noise levels such as those created by these planes has contributed to headaches, disorientation, dizziness, and fatigue. We believe our children represent the hope and future of our nation. How can our children possibly be expected to concentrate on their academic studies with the constant distraction caused by these flights? The noise will undoubtedly have a detrimental effect on their studies. In particular, the flights departing to the North on runway 34 will directly impact neighboring schools, especially the Northwood Montessori School, Northwood Village Green Elementary School, and the newly built Canyon High School. Irvine Unified School District is a nationally recognized, award winning school system, formerly rated by a Harvard study as being among the top three districts in the nation. Irvine’s schools are recognized by national and state educators for their commitment to a positive learning environment. It has taken many years to build this oustanding school system. Such academic esteem has attracted many companies with high tech professionals to settle in our city. The village of Northwood is also home to one of Irvine’s largest retirement communities known as The Groves. These senior citizens have come to expect a high level of environmental stability based upon values of peace and tranquility. They came to Irvine seeking a place where they could enjoy a quiet lifestyle. What right do we have to take this away from them at this season of their lives? The flight demonstration has clearly revealed to us that the proposed El Toro airport will ruin the Northwood community of Irvine. It is disheartening to us as we realize this inevitable consequence. The massive departure of residents from the Northwood area will have a drastic effect on the city’s tax base and on local businesses. We strongly recommend that every effort be made to stop development of the El Toro Airport before it is too late. Homeowners at Georgetown in Northwood, Irvine, CA 92620.
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El Toro Airport Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:44:50 -0700 I can't imagine how Orange County thinks this airport is a good idea for the residents. The quality of life will not be positively affected for any of the residents, in my opinion, and only the County government will benefit financially. Some of the finest coastline will become ridden with incoming and outgoing flights 24 hours a day, and property values will be adversely affected. The "trial flights" last weekend only confirmed that this is going to be worse than we all thougt. This should be put on a ballot for all residents to decide on, not just the Board of Supervisors. Sincerely, Steve XXXX Monarch Beach
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Proposed El Toro International Airport Wed, 9 Jun 1999 20:43:39 EDT I am deeply dismayed that I may have to listen to those jets all day and all night long. I moved to Portola Hills to get away from all the noise, pollution, strip bars, drugs, prostitutes, and unfavorable neighborhoods, people, and retail establishments that an international airport inevitably brings in and creates around it. This is such a nice area. Please don't ruin it! I am absolutely opposed to turning the old El Toro MCAS Base into an airport. I am in favor of the current millenium plan for the site.
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Recent Flight Demonstration at El Toro June 4th and 5th 1999 Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:41:18 -0700 To: ccoad@dist4.co.orange.ca.us, second@dist2.co.orange.ca.us, tspitzer@dist3.co.orange.ca.us, csmith@dist1.co.orange.ca.us, !!twilson@dist5.co.orange.ca.us My family lives in Aliso Viejo and the June 4th and 5th flight demonstration was a nightmare come true. The noise level of this "limited" test was totally unacceptable. Especially the 747-400 flights June 4th. I could only imagine with disgust and horror what the noise and pollution would be like should the 24 hours a day, 7 days a week operation come into existence. Supervisors Smith, Silva and Coad, you are all at a point in the history of Orange County where you will be remembered as the group who gave into the rich special interest group and buried the dream that Orange County once offered. Or you can stop this madness and be remembered as the heroes who preserved the quality of life that Orange County has to offer. There are other options besides an Airport, Jail or Dump. Eddie XXX Aliso Viejo CA 92656
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Sound proofing our homes Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:44:12 -0700 To: csmith@dist1.co.orange.ca.us cc: Mr. Smith, That was my neighborhood you visited on Saturday. You missed the 747-400's which flew over our heads on Friday rattling our home. As well as the 767's, A340's and other larger noisier aircraft then that flown on Saturday. Your statement that we will be mitigated for sound proofing our homes is a joke. As a Southern Californian you know that we live here to be outside. My back yard will become a place of torture instead of relaxation. The sounds of birds and children playing will be replaced with the whine of jet engines. Not to mention the resulting fuel residue and disease. You need to change your position on the Marine base conversion to a commercial airport with flights 24 hour a day 7 days a week. To non-aviation use such as the Millennium Plan Your are at a point in history where you will be known as one of the people who drove the nails into the coffin, burying the dream that Orange County once offered. Or one of the heroes who did not listen to rich special interest groups, but rather did the morally right thing and saved Orange County allowing it to remain one of the truly great places to live and raise a Family. It is your choice. Eddie XXX Aliso Viejo CA 92656

Click for the first group of messages received at the El Toro Airport Info Site on Friday.

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