El Toro Airport Flight demo complaints

WE GOT MORE E-MAIL! (June 5-6, 1999)
More messages arrived overnight, and on Sunday, when we stopped collecting. We've got to stop now and turn our efforts to other tasks. We are overwhelmed by the unsolicited outpour of anti-airport sentiment.
Sorry that a few duplicates slipped in.

Subject: Re: EL TORO BOOSTERS SHOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 15:38:13 -0700 To: Leonard Kranser <editor@eltoroairport> References: 1

the flight tests have only enraged me!!...up to now I have only given a small amount of money to the Safe and Healthy Initiative. besides promoting the anti-airport cause to others.

I would like to give more and to your site. I will be at a OC Board of Surpervisors this month among other things!
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Subject: No on El Toro Airport Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 To: <editor

I say No, No, No.

I am a 41yo 18yr home owner , native Californian, and native local in the flight path, that was hoping to live here forever. The military was not bearable. Now they want to have non-stop flights. NO.

A VOTER: Laguna Niguel, CA 92677
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Subject: Stop the Jets Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 13:02:02 -0700 From: Connie TO List,

How will we live with the noise and we all know about the crashes. When it can't go into an body of water, who will die? It is obvious the people around the flight path will not only have to deal with the noise, loss of property value, but maybe one day their lives. For once report the truth. The voice of the people needs to be heard, not the fat cats in office.
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Subject: Shocked in Laguna Niguel Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 13:17:31 -0700 To List

My husband and I moved here 3 months ago. We had heard the discussions on El Toro and have kept an open mind.....until these tests. Our home is in Monarch Pointe, on top of a hill right off the ocean. The planes may have been flying at 3000 feet above sea level, but as they approached our community, they were closer to 1000 feet. After Friday afternoon, I went into my house and cried. I could not even hear the person standing next to me. Please, please there has to be a more sane and humane way of approaching our future transportation challenges. I urge you to consider other alternatives. The effects to our cities will be devastating.
xxxx Isle Vista Laguna Niguel, CA 92677
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Subject: NO AIRPORT NO AIRPORT NO AIRPORT Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 15:38:13 -0700 From: Chris .To: List
What a total scam this whole thing is.

LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE!

I sat down through all the toll roads, I am not allowing this to happen. Never mind the noise which is too loud at my house. The traffic at the El Toro Y, what a joke. The danger and the dirt. We don't need another airport! Chris xxx xxx Avenue Laguna Beach
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Subject: Re: Runway construction Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 16:32:26 -0700 From: Nick To: Len Kranser <editor References: 1 , 2

Len, This test that the county is conducting does not reflect how real fully loaded aircraft will take off. When I flew KC-130's out of El Toro 20 years ago, we normally used a runway 7 departure. However, when we were at max gross, we took off the safe way...down hill into the prevailing wing. That was a runway 25 departure. This test is a big waste of money, proves nothing and if this does become an airport, I believe that ALPA will demand that runway 25 be the primary departure for safety reasons. Coordination will need to be made with JWA, of course, because there TCA's overlap and that will be cumbersome (unworkable) with so many departures. Answer: close JWA and only use El Toro. Pretty slick!
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Subject: Noise Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 14:57:05 +0000 From: Judy To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

I am a resident in Three Arch Bay and I have been home to witness the planes going overhead during the test flights that have been going on. It is very disturnbing to me how noisty and low these planes have flown, and disruptive they have been to our community and families.
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Subject: The June 4 & 5 Flight Tests Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:54:35 +0100 From: To: <jmittermeier@ceo.hoa.co.orange.ca.us> CC: <editor@eltoroairport.org>, <senator@feinstein.senate.gov>, <second@dist2.co.orange.ca.us>, <ccoad@dist4.co.orange.ca.us>, <tspitzer@dist3.co.orange.ca.us>, <csmith@dist1.co.orange.ca.us>, <twilson@dist5.co.orange.ca.us>, <cwiercioch@ceo.hoa.co.orange.ca.us>

How could you support this? I have lived in Orange County my entire life. Have you no mercy for the people who have already bought homes in South Orange County, for the people who located here because of the peaceful, and family-oriented communities. For the people who have invested sizable amounts of money in these communities? And now, PROPERTY VALUES are already going to fall, simply because of these tests. Can you imagine the damage? NO ONE who has listened to the feedback of the unacceptable noise levels from areas like Foothill Ranch, Aliso Viejo, Laguna Hills etc., will EVER want to buy a house out there. What were you thinking? There will be no place left to go in Orange County. The north and central areas are simply dirty, old and uninviting. The only areas that might be acceptable, will be unaffordable to middle-class, family-driven people like me. Orange County was always about being away from the big city mess that Los Angeles is. Where was the need to become another Los Angeles? I hate LA. If I have to go there on business, I charge extra. How could you do this to the people of Laguna Woods? For them this might be the last stop. What were you thinking? Nothing can justify this. NOTHING!
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Subject: NO EL TORO Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 16:59:12 -0700To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

You've taken the peace and quiet I searched for and found when I moved out to the "boondocks" of Coto. The testing has confirmed without a doubt that the peace of Coto will be lost forever if you open this airport. Between JWA and Ontario which is now very close since the 241 opened, we are more than covered. WE DONT NEED EL TORO!!!
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Subject: El Toro "Air Show" Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:07:08 -0700 To; List
Your El Toro "Air Show" continues to irritate me. I just heard the B737-300 set for a 4:50 p.m. arrival come in for a landing. My home is located approximately 2 1/2 miles to the east. The noise was high pitched and EXTREMELY irritating and offensive. To think you want me to listen to 400 of such noise events per day!

What your "Air Show" is proving is that the noise is very disturbing to a path of homes 3 miles wide on each side of centerline. If you get out your Thomas Guide and draw the map, you will find that the vast majority of south county will be severely noise impacted. No amount of money squandered by the majority on the Board of Supervisors is going to convince me otherwise.
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Subject: Another Complaint Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:32:30 EDT From:

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I understand that you are too busy to respond given the response to the flights, but I offer my comments for the file.

I live in Trabuco Canyon, and spent Saturday morning doing yardwork. I always wear ear protection while using the power mower. (Moldex Pura-Fit to be Tried #6800) with a 31dB noise reduction rating. With the mower off, the east-bound Airbus flight was loud enough to be heard through my hearing protection!!! I realize that this may not be a scientific measurement, but I know loud when I hear it! If I had been involved in a conversation, we would have had to pause to allow the noise level to subside before continuing.

According to the press, the aircraft used on Saturday were supposed to be quieter! Quieter, more powerful aircraft, flying unloaded, leaving a smaller noise footprint, not needing to throttle up -- and still, this amount of noise was generated. The only conclusion that I can draw is that this test is a farce. I only hope that the public backlash from this demonstration will backfire in the faces of the airport proponents.
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Subject: El Toro "Demo" Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:35:01 EDT To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

I have to admit to being somewhat lukewarm about the waste of taxpayer money being wasted on these "Demonstrations". Even though the planes were 1) landing into a headwind (and practically idling in the sky) 2) were practically flying an empty aircraft 3) seemed to be flying in higher than usual 4) and had NO flights during the middle of the night ( which will be 80% of the cargo flights), my neighbors and I are now going to fight the airport alliance tooth and nail. If this was only a taste of what to expect, then we are shocked by what we can really be facing. Let me know what I can to to help!! My neighbors and I were stunned by the 75 to 92 decibel ranges that we endured yesterday and today. It really mad an impression. Maybe it was a good thing after all. Please pass this on to whoever is appropriate.

Laguna Niguel Ca 92677
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Subject: We can't afford to move Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 18:03:58 -0700To: <editor
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Subject: Voter Apathy...Not too Late Yet. Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 18:18:39 -0700 (PDT) To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org
Voter apathy and lack of interest when the original airport proposition was shoved on the ballot by developers and even when we had a second chance to vote later on, really should change now that they have had a taste of this insane ETI plan.

We can vote, en mass and win the hearts and minds of NOC voters also...by offering better alternatives and by threatening their businesses.

The moronic supervisors and the greedy evil developers think this is a slam dunk...but they are so stupid that they have just shot themselves in the foot with this "flight demonstration", even at lower weight and flying higher and slower...even at longer flight intervals people are yelling NO!

Progress...towards what? This airport is progress towards Hell in my opinion.

I don't live under the flight paths and the noise has not been really noticeable, however I have to breathe the air, drive on the highways and live in the environment that would be degraded by an ETI.

We should organize, en mass, and descend on the County Supervisor's meetings with raised fists and verbal abuse. Just who the hell do the three clowns who consider themselves acting for the good of OC think that they are? What kind of "DUH" mentality do they show us?

Very sincerely, Dr. Eugene xxx Mission Viejo
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Subject: Airport News Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:21:21 EDT To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org

Dear OC Board of Supervisors

I live in Laguna Niguel CA., I wasn't sure about the airport going in however, after hearing the noise on many occasions on June 4th and 5th (10:05 A.M., 11:05 A.M.,7:05 P.M., 8:05PM 8:26PM 9:07Pm. June 5TH 4:45 PM and 6:05Pm.. It is one thing to have this test flights an hour apart and it is another thing to have continuous noise every 4 minutes during the day and night, not to mention the effect it has on our air, and our peace quiet airwaves.

Thank You for hearing my voice in the matter Sincerely Sue xxx
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Subject: El Toro Test Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 18:24:56 -0700 From: Jim To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org

What a waste of taxpayers money. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that jet planes make noise...lots of noise. I measured some of the flights passing overhead in Monarch Terrace near the coast at over 84 DB. They tell us this level is no worse than a vacuum cleaner, but our vacuum cleaner doesn't turn itself on every two minutes night and day. We started to hear each flight one to two minutes before before it passed overhead and then heard them for another minute or two as they passed on towards El Toro. With flights projected for every two minutes we will never be without a some level of roaring noise overhead!!

This "test" should be a real eye opener for everyone in Orange County and a black eye for the Supervisors that are pushing for this disaster.
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Subject: Noise Tests Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 21:55:34 -0400 From: David To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

Sometime between 12 and 12:30 pm this afternoon I heard what I thought was thunder. When I went outside I saw beautiful clear skies and realized that what I had heard was an El Toro test flight! The frightening thing is that I live in Irvine, North of Culver - an area that is well outside the flight pattern and is supposed to be unaffected by El Toro air traffic. If I could clearly hear a small, partially loaded jet where I live, the impact of a fully loaded 777 or DC10 (jets favored for cross-country and international flights) is going to devastate South Orange County.
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Subject: Friday and Saturday flight test Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:58:25 -0700 From: "Michael To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>
Gentlemen:

The test this weekend has strengthened our resolve to fight plans to convert El Toro into a commercial airport. While we expected we might hear some noise, we did not expect the planes to be flying almost directly over our home. We simply cannot imagine the intrusion into our lives of planes taking off every six minutes.

We live in Mission Viejo, just north of the lake. We returned home from our daughter's high school graduation at just before noon on Saturday. We were met by a plane flying almost directly overhead. The plane was much larger in the sky than we expected, and much closer to the ground. We are concerned about whether the family will ever have a quiet day with a commercial airport.

Today happened to be a family gathering at our home, with relatives gathered far and wide to celebrate our daughter's high school graduation. As we sat down to eat, despite windows being closed and people talking, we heard the planes. The planes today came half a dozen times, not the every six minutes expected if an airport is allowed to open. The planes today were met by perfect weather, not the kind of cloudy weather that amplifies jet aircraft noise. The planes today were recent model, relatively quiet aircraft, not the noisier planes I understand some of the airlines propose to fly. The planes contained sacks of sand, not thousands of passengers who are likely to contribute to clogging our local streets with cars and polluting our relatively clean air.

What a travesty.
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Subject: Flight Demos Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 20:17:55 -0700 From: Ellen > To: editor

So today was the "quiet" day??? I was not at home yesterday to hear the louder tests, but todays' were louder than I want happening on a day-in, day-out basis here. Not only that, but huge jetliners taking off tend to mar the view as well. I recorded a couple of samples (attached), so you can hear what it sounded like here in Foothill Ranch:
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Subject: I live in the flight path Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:27:33 -0700 From: To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>,

I live in Laguna Hills, and as the flight demos occurred, we found that we were closer than we thought. The aircraft came right next to our balcony. You could practically see the pilot in the aircraft.

I am extremely angered that our county officials would want to ruin our quality of life with this airport. The marines made wonderful neighbors. The flights were few and far between, except during a time of military action. I totally support the military, and have never been bothered by their flights, but for commerical and freight aircraft to fly over every minute is unacceptable.

I lived in Los Angeles for most of my life. We had friends who lived in Inglewood prior to LAX becoming an international airport. It was an upper middle class neighborhood. Today it is just a hood, a slum with high crime. This happened in only a numbwer of years. Airports and people do not make good neighbors.

Orange County right now is booming economically. Thre is no vacancy and prices are rising. High tech jobs are moving into the area. These are the jobs that Orange County needs, not airport workers, hotels and strip clubs. Airport jobs are not high paying jobs, except as they are unionized. We need professional jobs to maintain our lifestyle.

My husband and I will work very hard to prevent the airport. At some point, the county will have to see the errors of their ways.
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Subject: El Toro Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 20:45:58 -0700 To: ListTo Whom It May Concern, is anyone listening!!!!!!!!!!!!! I live in Mission Viejo and not even under the proposed flight paths. The engines rumbles and roars were very noticable even though we are considered not in any type of noise zone. Please don't ruin our tranquil lives. Not only the noise but the pollution will be backed up against the mountains just like Ontario Ca. I know this is big business but what will that be to you when you are gone and others get to suffer with your decision! Sincerely,
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Subject: El Toro Airport Testing Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:48:52 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,
We live in Aliso Viejo and after the two day tet program is complete, all we can say it is far worse than what we expected. The worst offender was the B-747 whih was so loud I could not carry a conversation in my housr without shouting. The mere fact that the county is planning an airport in a populated area with many families who are trying to raise their children, it shows the county supervisors in favor of an airport are going to leave a leagcy that includes runing many people lives and poluting a beautiful part of Orange County.
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Subject: El Toro Flights Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 20:56:41 -0700

I live in Laguna Niguel and the noise from the planes reminded me of when I had a cottage across from a SAC Base back in the 60s. It's awful and it means nothing but bad news for most of the residents. I have not heard one good report about the benefits of this airport. Except someone will make a lot of money if it goes through.
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Subject: Te Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 10:52:39 -0700 From: David
st FlightsFlights over Kite Hill in Laguna Niguel were clearly audible- even though we are several miles from the airport. The 747's on Friday were particularly loud and emitted whistling noises. Since the planes were empty, flying at higher than normal altitudes, in glide patterns and only arriving sporadically rather than every two or three minutes, we can only shudder to think what the actual airport scenario would be like.
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Subject: The Noise Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 11:02:14 -0700To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

I live in Lake Forest in Serrano Park, the tract closest to the proposed airport, and under the takeoff path for the east runway. The test flights this weekend proved many things to me.

1. The noise level was equal to that of the Navy jet fighters, and absolutely unacceptable on a 24-7 basis. 2. A commercial airport will completely destroy the quality of life in South County in general and Lake Forest in particular. 3. The old concept of "Government by the People, for the People" is a complete sham. The Board of Supervisors is not responding to the demands of the people, but blatantly putting forth their own agenda using public funds.

I do believe some good will come of this weekend's tests. Many of my neighbors were either unsure or ambivalent above the impact of this airport. Today they have seen and heard the future and are angry and ready to take a stand. If anything, these demonstrations have served as a wake-up call to this community. We have just begun to fight.
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Subject: El Toro Airport Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 21:30:28 -0700 From: Eileen To: List

While sitting in my backyard in RSM I was bombarded with noise on Saturday afternoon. The planes only tested over our area 4 times that day. I can't begin to imagine what it would be like to have them take off every few minutes. PLEASE don't let this airport go in! Eileen xxx
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Subject: Comment on El Toro Airport Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:35:37 -0700 From: "Bob To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>

I don't even know where to start. The prospect of an International Airport in El Toro is horrific.

Just to list a few concerns:

1) Traffic - It was not long ago that we dealt with construction to help ease the traffic at the El Toro "Y." The addition of an international airport would completely negate any benefit that was realized by this "upgrade." Citizen's of the surrounding cities would be subjected to the type of traffic that is typical at LAX. In other words, we will not only have traffic jams at the "Y" during "rush hour," but we would experience this type of traffic all day, all week.

2) Smog - Saddleback Valley will become the "Valley of the Smog" if we were to have the volume jet traffic in and out of here that is being planned for. One of the primary reasons that many people have moved to South County from other areas (distance from L.A.) will now be destroyed, and we will again be forced to move further south.

3) Noise - After the "testing" for noise that was done over this past weekend, I am convinced that the solitude of South County will also be a thing of the past. The quiet that is a part of South County is just another piece of the big picture that makes/made it such a pleasant place to live.

The last issue is purely speculation based upon some observations on my part, but it seems that when large airports are built, it is inevitable that the area goes the way of places such as those surrounding LAX. Without going into to much detail, what I mean by this is that the neighborhood ends up over crowded, under maintained and just has an all around "aura" of being filthy.

I realize that there are many people who seem to like living in those kind of areas, and that's fine, but it's going to be a real shame to turn South County into one of them.

Aside from all of this, I have other selfish reasons for not wanting the airport, such as the beautiful view I have in my front yard being filled with the sight of jumbo jets. My front yard overlooks Aliso Viejo/Laguna Hills, which means the planes coming from the South will cause my view to be turned in to nothing more than a "road" that planes "drive" by on.

It will truly be a shame for South County to become a proverbial "part of L.A."
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Subject: Eventually

It may take a while but I'm confident that, at some stage the FAA, in its wisdom, will come forward with the real facts regarding arrival and departure routes should the commercialization of El Toro ever come to pass.

The present exercise of these so-called noise tests is a sham and sad waste of taxpayer funds. Even worse is that the money comes from John Wayne revenues. These funds could have gone into a runway extension at JWA which would have improved the noise situation at Newport Beach.

The only winners in this fight will be the lawyers.

My background? Former pilot and retired FAA employee who knows which runway to use. Answer? The safest one.
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Subject: Commercial Test flights 6/4/99 & 6/5/99 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 00:58:13 EDT

We live in the southern end of RSM. Every flight was very loud, whether landing or taking off.

Why hasn't the County establish a reliable means to correctly tally all the complaints? I can't imagine the value of a full mailbox!! And the results are probably going to be published as "reliable" statistics. I think I wasn't alone finding it almost impossible to follow the schedule. I think this was specifically part of the demonstration, so anti-airport people will look like crazed by lodging complaints about false departures or arrivals!! There is always small aircraft (and a few larger ones) traffic over Irvine, that one could easily pin it on a schedule test flight, and thus be rebuffed.
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Subject: el toro flight tests Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:47:22 -0700 To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>,
I just sent the following to both OC Register and LA Times, please add this to your other emails about this weekends flight test sham! ***********************
Dear Editor:

This weekend's test flights at El Toro were a sham! One of the main reasons for having these test was to understand noise impact on surrounding areas. How can this be judged when there are no means for lodging a noise complaint? The only way to lodge a complaint was with the El Toro Reuse Authority (pro airport); and how can anyone possibly log complaints when one was asked to leave a message and the voicemail system was conveniently 'full' after the first flight on Friday? Further, who knows how many complaints were allowed to be lodged before the voicemail system became full?

As a resident effected by the take-offs, how can any public official or agency say, with sincerity, that these tests were run in a fair manner? When you don't allow feedback to be properly recorded, to me, this just reinforces that the majority of our County Supervisors are in now way interested in hearing true public opinion--just getting the results they want to get. I hope these flights are a wake-up call to the public to get involved now before it's too late.
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Subject: I won't raise my kids here! Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 23:21:04 -0700 From: Steven To: List

This airport cuts through some of the finest new neighborhoods with young children in the state of California. Not only do these jets create unbearable constant noise pollution but also create unstable communities where good people just won't live.

My name is Walter xxx. Our home is at xxxxx, Rancho Santa Margarita. We are half a mile from the Melinda Heights Elementary School, and approximately six miles due East from the El Toro Marine base.

My neighbors and I spotted and logged several test flights using a Radio Shack sound level meter. All flights flew directly over our neighborhood. Friday's flights were significantly lower than Saturday's, probably due to the weather. Here are the results:

Friday, 6/4/1999
~07:30 pm This one was spotted by my neighbors, hence the guess on the time and no dB level. The plane flew directly over our end of the block as it turned South. It was so low that they could read the lettering on it. It was so loud that they could not carry on a conversation until the plane had passed.
~08:00 pm The plane came towards us then turned South at the cul-de-sac of our block. It was quite low and I measured +70 dB on my meter.
09:35 pm +70 dB

Saturday, 6/5/1999

All of the flights turned early and were heading South as they passed over our block. Although the planes were substantially higher, they were still very noisy.

11:55 am +72 dB 12:51 pm +70 dB 02:50 pm +72 dB 03:03 pm +76 dB 04:13 pm +72 dB 05:40 pm +68 dB 06:06 pm +68 dB

There was a noisy jet flying over our block at 03:24 pm. I was inside and didn't actually see it but my meter registered +70 dB at the window. It could have been a jet from a different airport so I'm keeping it separate from the other sightings which I know for certain were part of the demo.

If there were ever any doubts before, they've all dissolved. We've GOT to stop this thing. ------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Results of El Toro Airport noise demonstration Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 05:44:05 -0700

The noise levels in Northwood (Irvine) on Saturday afternoon were unacceptable. Because we have a noisy neighbor, we have already installed double-pane gas-filled windows and three fountains in our backyard to mask noise. Even with our windows closed and fountains running, we could clearly hear take-offs to the North while watching the Nicks/Pacers game on TV in our family room. This noise level 24 hours per day, 7 days per week would be extremely disruptive and unacceptable. It's the amount of noise that wakes our baby up at night, prevents us from sleeping, and causes our neighborhood to call the police.

Do not build an international airport at El Toro.
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Subject: No airport Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 06:27:00 -0700 From: To: editor

I want NO airport at El Toro.

A voting citizen,
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Subject: El Toro Demo Flights Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 20:53:11 -0700 From: Mark
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Today I was doing volunteer work in Wood Canyon, a semi-Wilderness area. I go there often as it's a wonderful, relaxing and quiet place for a bike ride or to simply walk.

The Wood Canyon semi-Wilderness area is roughly a five (5) minute bike ride from my home in Laguna Niguel. In five (5) minutes I find myself away from the noise, congestion and pressures of city life. At various times of the year the fragrant native vegetation is nothing short of a slice of heaven.

Needless to say I was appalled today during the time I participated in the volunteer trail maintenance which took place today, June 5, 1999, between 1:00pm & 4:00pm. Aircraft appeared to be flying approach directly overhead.

As an airline pilot for a major carrier with thousands of hours experience, I am upset and angry with the low altitude (AGL -- Above Ground Level) of the approaches which took place today Saturday June 5, 1999.

I suspect that due to the reason for these "demo flights," each crew was briefed as to the importance of flying at or above the glide path. Still, from a human standpoint, the glide slope places aircraft at too low an altitude in the area of Wood Canyon semi-Wilderness park, Laguna Niguel and Aliso Niguel.

Note my son attends Aliso Viejo High School (AVHS) which is adjacent to Wood Canyon semi-Wilderness area. Our children's education is vital to the future of not only Orange County but our nation as a whole.

Our youth deserves, are entitled to, and as county supervisors it's your responsibility to ensure the highest quality learning environment possible. A wise and unselfish plan that attains quality education for Orange County youth is the single most cost effective action we, as a community, can make.

The proposed El Toro airport is not only a selfish plan, but also is detrimental to the high standards our community school systems currently have and the outstanding results we've archived so far.

Yet, it seems, the majority of the board of supervisors chooses to ignore those they represent -- residents of Orange County.

Instead several county supervisors selfishly support corporate money and participate in underhanded, premeditated, organized plans that -- in the past -- have conspired to hold key voting on El Toro airport issues when the county supervisors who represent The People and oppose the El Toro airport are out of town on business.

I experience these blatant actions of the three county supervisors as appalling, revolting, and in my mind clearly dishonest.

As a tax paying, voting resident of Orange County and an airline pilot, I strongly oppose the continued squandering of additional tax money in attempt to develop an airport at El Toro. If the corporations that desire an airport at El Toro (FedEx comes to mind immediately) wish to spend their money, fine.

I'm angered -- no, outraged -- at the Orange County board of supervisors irresponsible decision to use The People's hard earned tax money to fund the promotion of corporate interests and desires.
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Subject: WEEKEND FLIGHT TESTS Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:02:21 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,
We live in Portola Hills and, although we are completely against an international airport going in at the El Toro Marine Base for many reasons, we were curious about the flight tests scheduled for Friday and Saturday. Now that they have been completed, we find it difficult to make much of an assessment with the sporadiac and light weight tests that were conducted. The reduced load capacity and the frequency of these airplanes certainly would not give an accurate representation of the noise level and amount of planes during a day or night. However, even if the the airport traffic were at the level conducted it would be very disturbing with a constant noise factor that would be irritating. Those of us who located ourselves in a planned community did not select this beautiful area with an International Airport in our back yards in mind. Nor did we, by any stretch of the imagine, think that an International Airport could be railroaded into our backyards by politics!
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Subject: The El Toro flight demonstrations . Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 08:20:32 -0700 From: "Kevin

The only thing proven by the flight demonstrations is the pro airport county people continue to believe their own propaganda, while ignoring facts. Ellen Cox Call stated " No aircraft will ever depart to the west". It has been stated many many time that FAA Regulations state the pilot makes the decision on which runway an aircraft departs from.

Commercial airports operate under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR). Which are safer and more efficient than Visual Flight rules. All IFR procedures must be approved by the FAA. The operations planned for the flight demonstrations were VFR. Since the FAA has not approved the flight paths the county was forced to have the demonstrations operate under VFR conditions. On June 3, 1999 John Wayne Airport Manager of Airside Operations, issued a notice to all airports and flight facilities within 50 miles of El Toro that VFR operations were going to take place at El Toro.

Typical operations at commercial airports take place 24 hours a day. Courtney Wiercioch stated "we did our best to give the residents an idea of the level of noise generated by typical planes expected..." International flights are mostly flown by 747 with arrivals and deprtures during all hours of the day and night. Why didn't Courtney plan the 747 arrival and take off for around 2 - 3 AM? That one flight would have given a true reading of the noise factor of 24 hour operations. Also, by not having operations after 10 PM the county, avoided the noise penalties associated CNEL computation. You can bet the county will try to use the data gathered to compute a new 65 CNEL even thought the data used to compute it was not a true sample.

The flight demonstrations appeared to be just what we supposed "south county, no airport, no way radicals", knew they would be, a farce. A farce forced upon us by the NIMBY Newport Beach backed, let's close John Wayne no matter what, politicians.
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Subject: Loud in West Niguel Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 08:45:41 -0700 From: To: editor
I was awaken this morning (Saturday June 5, 1999) at 6:15am with planes flying overhead. This Rattled my home and the noise was horrendous. The El Toro Airport is not necessary and ridiculous. It’s a great idea that you voted for the test, as it shows that that Orange County will be adversely affected if this airport goes through. The noise is obtrusive and invasive, so much so that we can not hear ourselves speak over the noise. Look at LAX and look at what has happened to that area.

For Gods sake, please do not let this airport go through.
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Subject: Re: EL TORO BOOSTERS SHOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 08:52:40 -0700 , "Leonard Kranser" <editor> References: 1
I live in Trabuco Canyon and I had no idea how loud the airplane noise would be. We used to live in Northwoods in Irvine--our home bordered Jeffrey and Bryan and we moved here two and ahalf years ago to escape that racket, we thought. We never dreamed that jumbo jets would head for Saddleback mountain and then make a sharp turn. We will not be able to live here with that noise. They can discuss insulating our homes--but since most of the homes are relatively new, that won't do anything. What are they going to do about the noise outside. I don't understand how a county could allow a beautiful airport like John Wayne to be mothballed, especially when we owe millions of dollars on its construction. But that is the board of supervisors who put us into bankruptcy with their stupidity, who control the board. Simth would have been sued if he had been a CEO for any corporation!! I fly out of John Wayne three or four times a year and it's practically empty. I don't know how some of those little airport shops survive. And there's plenty of seating available. What a waste of money. But I guess those rich people in Newport Beach could care less since it's not their money!! All they care about is shutting down that airport and getting the noise out of their backyard. Well I don't feel the least bit sorry for them. They own multi-million dollar homes and if they don't like, why don't they move elsewhere. The rest of us poor people can't just pick up and move. Orange County will become just like LA--is that we want here?
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Subject: PROTEST Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 09:18:40 -0700 From: "Dennis To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>, <

The flight tests made me realize the adverse impact the airport will have on Lake Forest and surrounding communities. I believe many people came to that conclusion June 4 & 5. Have any of the anti-airport organizations made plans for protest??
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Subject: El Toro - The final sham by OC Supervisors this Century Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 11:51:29 -0700 From: Robert

My name is Rob xxx and I live at 4 xxxxx Drive in Aliso Viejo, CA. My phone number is 949xxxx I would like to comment on the El Toro flight demonstrations held yesterday and today.

The noise is a nightmare - I am not a "zero tolerance" kind of guy, or a "NIMBY" as some might put it. I am not a South County elitist either. I am a normal, married guy with kids. After living in Riverside for 8 years, and having my car stolen from my driveway and my wifes car broken into on seperate occassions, we decided to move back to where I was raised, here in Orange County, CA. I lost $40k on the sale of that home in order to move to the beautiful coastal and hillside area I live in now. I thought it was worth it to provide my family a better, safer life, quieter life. While the jets at the Marine base were kind of cool, I knew they were going to be moving out one day.

I live on the top a little hill in AV, known as Laguna Audoban. I have to tell you, having commercial aircraft flying what seems to be not too much higher than eye level during flight is a little frightening. And it is very loud - I have heard reports reanging from 10 - 100db. And that is with the pilots coming in higher than usual, with their engines on idle to reduce the noise from absolutely deafening down to merely unbearable. Oh, and by the way - do you know anyone who tried to call into lodge a noise complaint? If you do, they will tell you that there was no way to do so. No one was manning the phones and the voice mailboxes were full, so no more complaints can be lodged! Cute trick by the County.

The flight schedule is also a farce - the number of planes in the two day demo represent the quantity of flights of only 2hrs of the proposed actual operations schedule. I asked County CEO Jan Mittermeir about this and she said that the demo was intended to represent actual flight ops, but that it was just so residents could experience the noise for themselves. What she is really saying is that the demo is not intended to be realistic - ergo - it's not a demo! I respectfully differ with Ms. Mittermeir - there is noise and there is frequency. If you are going to do a demo, do it right or not at all - do it for 24hrs with flights every 3 minutes since that is what is being proposed for actual flight ops... that would be an acceptable demonstration and would surely allow the voters to have enough data to make an informed decision.

But hey, back to me and my family. Will we move? I am not planning on it - becuase this demo has cemented my opposition to this. I fully intend to fight this thing. I do not intend to have my property values shot down. I like it here and the OC Board of Supervisors arent going to mess this up for us. The one good thing this demo has done is rallied the opposition to the airport-use initiatives - even the North County folks are involved now that they know their quality of life and property values are impacted. This is about my money that I have worked my tail off trying to be taken by the wealthy land and business developers who are lining the pockets of the OC Supervisors favotite special interest groups. Theis is about good versus bad. What side are you on.

Thanks for reading and posting this letter.
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El Toro flight tests will allay anxiety
June 6, 1999

George Serniak of Monarch Beach said in an article published Thursday that residents in many areas of south Orange County will not be subjected to noise from the proposed El Toro noise-test demonstration flights [Opinion, The Orange Grove, June 3]. Indeed they were not, and neither are these same residents likely to be much affected by noise when the airport at El Toro is operating at full capacity.

That's because the county has made every effort to plan the airport so that flights can take advantage of undeveloped land and areas where noise-sensitive development has been restricted for years.

Serniak also claims that airline pilots do not necessarily fly prescribed flight paths. Yet we have a good example right here, at John Wayne Airport, that pilots mostly do follow prescribed flight paths and mitigation procedures based on agreements signed with airport authorities.

(They also follow flight paths for safety and navigational reasons, and many communities around the country have agreements which have been developed to mitigate noise for residents.)

It's unfortunate that anti-airport extremists have vastly exaggerated the likely impact of the airport at El Toro, causing unnecessary anxiety and stress to residents. For example, to suggest that arrivals "will blanket the majority of south county residential areas" is very misleading.

Serniak says that the noise-test flights, by using cleverly planned flight paths " ... will be disturbing as few residents as possible." Well, yes. Again, he is quite right. That's why the county planned the flight paths that way — and they are the same flight paths that are planned for the future airport.

Did the board decide to do these tests to deceive the residents of Orange County? That's quite an accusation, verging on the slanderous.

On the contrary, quite simply, the majority of the Board of Supervisors voted to hold flight demonstrations to provide the only practical way to answer the question the county gets asked most frequently: What will a plane actually sound like, and where will it be as it flies to and from the new airport?

The county planned to fly one of the heaviest, loudest planes, the Boeing 747, as part of the demonstration (anti-airport extremists said we wouldn't dare).

We plan to load the planes with sandbags, so that their weights are representative of actual flying conditions (anti-airport activists said we wouldn't do that).

We planned about 50 operations, mostly at times when we know people will be at home (anti-airport activists said we would have only a few flights each day and none at night.)

In other words, we did our best to give residents an idea of the level of noise generated by typical planes expected to fly into and out of El Toro.

And we run the risk that the noise levels will be perceived as much more of a nuisance than they would be under normal circumstances. After all, people were out on the streets, listening for noise. That's hardly typical. But it is the kind of risk we are willing to take in the interests of providing as much information as possible.

Recently, we provided preliminary scientific data to show that there are no homes and no schools in the 65 CNEL noise impact area as defined by state and federal authorities (by comparison, there are 31,335 homes and 36 schools in the LAX noise footprint; and 1,360 homes and 5,900 people in the San Francisco noise footprint).

The 65 CNEL metric has been in use for decades as the way to determine the relative impact of noise on residents and has proved a reliable indicator.

But we know scientific data can't tell the whole story.

In fact, anti-airport extremists insisted that hearing a plane overhead was the only way to judge noise accurately. In a nutshell, that's why we conducted real-time flight demonstrations.

Courtney C. Wiercioch
Ms. Wiercioch is program manager for the county's El Toro Master Development Program.
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Subject: Stop the Airport Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:58:57 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,
Stop the Airport at El Toro!!!!!

Not only will the quality of life be degraded in Irvine, but also in every other community in South County from Dana Point to Anaheim Hills to Coto de Caza to Newport Beach. This is an atrocity that must be stopped. There is no comparison between the marine jets and commercial airliners....400 flights per month to 800 per day!! Please don't insult our intelligence. I fear for the county in the future when it becomes a rundown slum area. I fear for my children living in the environment that this airport will bring.

What a 2 million dollar joke the flight demonstration is!!! No planes taking off on schedule....it is difficult at best to determine if noise is a factor or not. I can say that the 3 planes that did fly directly overhead were EXTREMELY loud. One of these jets woke me from a deep sleep late Friday night. Let the board of supervisors vote to have these jets fly over their own homes 800 times per day. This airport is an issue of greed and greed alone with the decisions being made by people who will not be directly impacted.
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STOP THE EL TORO AIRPORT Subject: June 4 & 5 airport testing Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:59:11 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

I live on the lake in Mission Viejo and was startled by the 747 that flew overhead Friday morning at approx. 7:30 am. The plane did not land at El Toro and I could not "see" it but the noise inside my house was deafening. When I called to complain it was hard to get through, but with persistence and much calling around I was told this plane only passed by and did not land. Will future "wave offs" also go over my house? The future for South County is looking dim if this is what the new millennium has to offer.

Todays noise has also been very disturbing and we have been indoors with double paned windows closed and the noise level is shocking. Outdoors it is incomprehensible to think our lives will be interrupted constantly by this pollution. Isn't Orange County first suppose to be the place to live? No amount of sunshine can compete with peace and quiet-people can't live under these conditions.

I also wonder who this airport is being built for? Many of Orange County's residence to the North will be more economically served by Ontario or Los Angeles. We who are closest to this proposal don't want it. If Newport Beach is so hot for an international airport let's expand John Wayne, put the freeway under the runway to allow for the "big" guys and do away with the time limitations. Let's try that first-the economics make sense-it will be cheaper to expand John Wayne. Once this is accomplished I believe it will surprise many at how many people still won't use these expensive alternatives to flying out of LA or Ontario.

Also why isn't San Diego looking into this-they don't have an international airport-they need it before anyo
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Subject: Test flights Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 15:12:08 -0700 From: Frank To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org

One should specify what one is to build, built to those specs, and then test to the specs. This set of "Demonstration Flights" is flawed from the start. One of the key things about any specification, is the list of ASSUMPTIONS. For the proposed El Toro Intl. A/P, no set of specs on airplanes, their capabilities, and their loads was created or at least made available to the general public. In this case, assumptions included types of planes expected to be available when (IF) the a/p opens. Flight characteristics must be specified which include sound levels for given loading of specific airplane models and engines. It is well known that a large percentage of airplanes leaving John Wayne can only fly 60 - 70% full because to fly with more passengers, their associated luggage, and the fuel to carry them, would cause serious noise pollution which would exceed noise specifications. There's that word again - specifications.

The stories in both the Times and the Register indicate the the noise monitoring stations were sort of put down wherever they were without any specifications and without any system engineering to determine their location. The data recorded from such placement is bogus at best!

To fly planes that are not expected to be flown by anticipated carriers and with only 30% loads is a horribly unrealistic action that couldn't possibly meet the specs, should they exist. 30% loads are unprofitable for any airline and, hence, are not realistic.

The results from this test should not and cannot be used for ANY planning for any airport at El Toro MCAS. Instead, the sounds of the Millennium Plan sound pretty good to me.
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Subject: El Toro Noise Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 15:56:12 -0700 From: > To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>,

Checking in from Monarch Beach (under the NO Noise Footprint)...NOT!!

We have heard jets CLEARLY through CLOSED windows all day during Southern Arrival and Easterly Departure and these are the quiet aircraft! We can imagine that the noise generated closer to El Toro is unbearable.

Why are we even discussing this airport? Hasn't John Wayne Airport been established for over 20 years? Why do we need a new one? It seems like many more homes are affected by an Airport at El Toro rather than John Wayne.
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Subject: my note Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 16:02:18 -0700 From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org, a
To the Honorable Supervisors of Orange County, (ccoad@dist4.co.orange.ca.us, second@dist2.co.orange.ca.us, tspitzer@dist3.co.orange.ca.us, csmith@dist1.co.orange.ca.us, twilson@dist5.co.orange.ca.us)

While I do respect the work you perform on behalf of the county, I must make myself clear on one point.

In the early evening of Friday, June 4, my normal peaceful evening in my home in Laguna Niguel was shattered with the thunderous noise of a giant commercial airliner passing overhead.

This is extremely upsetting to me and my neighbors. We have SLAVED and TOILED to "make it" into one of the better communities and areas for the express purpose of peace and quiet.

Do you not recognize that quality of life is the paramount concern of people in these surrounding communities? I cannot imagine what lunatic would put something like this in place with flight paths over Laguna Woods, a retirement community, as well.

This is completely UNACCEPTABLE and totally OUTRAGEOUS.

For God's sake, make it a giant park where people can run and roam and play with their families, children, their friends and relatives, and expand Irvine Spectrum business and Irvine Spectrum entertainment which contribute to and do not debase the environment.

It is these uses that will make Orange County a success.

El Toro as airport is not needed, not appreciated, and wholly unacceptable.
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Subject: Noise Tests Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 16:10:39 -0700
This is the first chance I have had to actually sit down to write my comments regarding the noise tests June 4 and 5. At first I was not amused by three of the Board of Supervisors voting to spend my hard earned tax dollars on air noise tests. I have changed my mind and actually want to thank the three north county supervisors for approving the monies. These jet takeoffs have proven without a doubt in my mind and I presume many others the jets are REALLY!!!!!LOUD!!!!!!!! At a shade after 3p.m. and 3:20pm today (June 5) a jet took off both times that I could barely have a simple conversation with my wife. It reminded me of when we have travel to LAX to take a flight. My wife and I can only imagine the constant commercial flights out of El Toro, not to mention the cargo flights that will inevitably be scheduled as well. Right now (3:50p.m.) I can hear a jet fly over my house. I can understand why Dana Rorbacher doesn't mind the noise, HE DOESN'T LIVE IN SOUTH ORANGE COUNTY!!!!!!!!! Just wonder what his opinion would be if he lived in one of the areas where the takeoffs and landings are taking place. AND this is ONLY a TEST!!!! We can envision commercial and cargo flights 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Noise coupled with more traffic would greatly impact my family's quality of life. No thanks!!!!! I also wonder the loading factor on the jets? Does this test also have the factors of weight (passengers, luggage, cargo, etc) that a NORMAL flight would entail. The jets are loud enough, but to add weight would increase the noise factor. Count our five family votes AGAINST any airport being developed at El Toro!!!!!!!!!

Richard & Francine xxxx Foothill Ranch
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Subject: El Toro Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 16:16:17 -0700 From: CINDY

I live in Aliso Viejo and witnessed the demo flights over my house. The noise and visual effects are completely unacceptable. Already my block has 5 "for sale" signs up. I hope there will not be a panic selling streak. Should we all ask the County to buy our homes? I am a pilot and know the rules of the sky. From my vantage point, it appeared that the planes were flying lower than legally acceptable over populated terrain. I have volunteered to collect signatures for the "Safe and Healthy Communities Initiative. I hope everyone signs it.
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Mail-For: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org> Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 14:40:40 -0700 From: Subject: (Noise at El Toro

I was really hoping that the noise would be less than as expected.

Its as bad as I expected and I don't know what we are going to do should the airport become a reality.

Northwood, Irvine Resident
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Mail-For: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org> From: "Doug Subject: Flight Demonstrations Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 14:27:12 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5,

Dear Team,
The Orange County Board of Supervisors has completed their flight demonstrations. For a cool $1.3 Million, we now have evidence that airplanes are loud. I listened to the airplanes arrive directly over Oak Grove Elementary School . We could not hear ourselves think. How in the world are the children in the school supposed to hear their teacher? The number of flights was ridiculously low, and did very little to provide an example of what life would be like living next door to an El Toro Airport. Imagine a constant stream of airplanes, 24 hours per day. I tried to call the County, only their voice mailbox was full. Nothing was done to prepare for public feedback. This only provides further evidence of the Board's practice of operating under non-disclosure. I can not wait to hear the Board report that they received very little noise complaints.

The County has previously described intentions to begin air cargo flights as soon as possible. There is no way that they can legally begin air cargo until the complete analysis and process has been completed for an international airport. If the County continues to push forward in violation of due process, they had better be prepared for a class-action lawsuit of biblical proportions.

The continued reference to "huge" noise buffers surrounding the proposed El Toro airport is meaningless. These buffers are based on the absurd statistic of average noise levels. Averaging noise over a 24 hour period is of little value. This is a completely irresponsible and insensitive attempt to diminish opposition to an airport at El Toro. The real problem is constant exposure to high noise levels, interrupted only by scheduled noise well above acceptable levels.

Experts acknowledge that constant noise as quiet as 65 dB (about average conversational levels) can have an effect on stress, sleep patterns and learning. The longer you are exposed to a damaging level, the greater will be the eventual hearing loss. There is a relationship between how long you are exposed to noise and the damage done. For every 3 dB increase in noise exposure, the damage doubles. For example, exposure to 85 dB for 40 hours a week is the same as being exposed to 88 dB for only 20 hours, 91 dB for 10 hours, 94 dB for 5 hours, 97 dB for 2.5 hours, and just over one hour each week at 100 dB. Local studies have shown that considerable numbers of homes in neighborhoods surrounding El Toro are located within the 64 dB zone. This 1 decibel difference from the 65 dB unacceptable level is not statistically significant, and will provide legitimate grounds for lawsuits. The County will be held responsible for hearing loss, stress and learning deficiencies.

On Saturday, The Register quoted a number of airport supporters who felt that the noise was not so bad, as long as the planes were not flying over their homes. These people have no concern for how their actions impact others. This is sadly representative of prevailing attitudes in our society.
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From: Mail-For: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:23:56 EDT Subject: Complaint!! To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

Please add my e-mail and name to your list of complaints! I live in Laguna Niguel. The level of noise by these flights is simply ridiculous. I think our county supervisors should have a show on television based on America's Dumbest Criminals - they should call it the America's Dumbest Supervisors. Please give me more information on how I can contribute to stop this stupid plan. I believe not only we need to concentrate on stopping the plan, but also we need to investigate the motives of every supervisor and sue them, if possible. Maybe they are not as dumb as they seem. Best regards, Ken Farah
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Mail-For: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org> Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 14:35:01 -0800 From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org, amdano@yahoo.com Subject: EL TORO AIRPORT

WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT IT IS TO KNOW THAT ENOUGH PEOPLE VOTED TO TURN THIS BEAUTIFULL AREA OF SOUTH ORANGE COUNTY INTO THE """FILTH""" THAT ARE NOW THE NEIGHBORHOODS AROUND L.A.X.!!!!

I VOTE TO HAVE THE PLANES LAND AND TAKE OFF OVER THE HOMES OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO SO BADLY NEEDED AN AIRPORT AT EL TORO!!!!

IT'S COMFORTING TO SEE SO MANY PEOPLE SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THE AIRPORT BUT.....AREN'T WE REACTING TO THIS DECISION A BIT TOO LATE????? IS THERE ANYTHING WE CAN DO AT THIS POINT TO STOP THE DESTRUCTION OF SOUH ORANGE COUNTY?????

I LIVE NEAR MISSION VIEJO HIGH SCHOOL AND THE NOISE LEVELS ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE.
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To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4

I would like to send a message to the three pro-airport supervisors stating that though they spent a lot of our funds for the two day flight demo stunt they aided in showing to our undecided neighbors the noise and the overpowering effect that these behemoths of the sky have on the unknowing population below. The multiple flights as proposed will have a devasting noise level (& polution seeding) for all below and near by. The cyclic noise peaks every few minutes apart no one should be allowed to bear. All my neighbors are now vehemently in the anti-airport camp. NO JETS Mr & Mrs V A xxxx Laguna Niguel, Ca 92677
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Subject: Noise in Mission Viejo Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:22:48 -0700 From: "Mike
It's Saturday, 12:15 PM and I just heard a roar to our north -- apparently the A300 is departing -- and hopefully, after today, we will never have to listen to that again.

We are located near La Paz and Marguerite.

We do not support the El Toro airport.
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Subject: Demo flights Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:18:12 -0700 From:> To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>,

Hi We live in Northwood in Irvine. I've been hearing planes all Friday and Saturday from within the house. I was in my backyard at 12:15AM Saturday and heard one of the planes either take off or land. The noise was unbearable and I can only imagine how bad it will be if it last 24 hours 7 days a week. I live two miles from the flight path (and when the county eventually re-orients the runway to be parallel to Interstate 5, which they'll no doubt do after FAA pressure - the classic bait-and-switch maneuver - we'll be right in the flight path) and I am sure that the noise will be infinitely worse. I would like to know understand the purpose of these demo flights - apparently it is to show us south county people that these planes are not noisy. Well, now that the flights are happening and the county has actually shown that the planes are, in fact, pretty noisy, what next? Will they now shelve the airport plans? What was the purpose of these flights? If these demos did anything for me, they've made me more resolved to fight the airport to the fullest. Sincerely
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Subject: El Toro Airport Tests/June 5 Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 12:45:51 -0800 From: Carol To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

Please be advised that I live at xxx Blackfin Ave., Irvine in the Northwood Village (corner of Bryan and Culver). I am commenting about the noon flight today in that it was easily heard by me. This is an accomplishment in that I am hearing impaired and we have double panen windows (although two windows were open).

Additionally, when I was at the Von's Market in Northwood (Yale and Irvine Blvd.) many shoppers were commenting about the noise these planes were making. These same people were standing in line, waiting to sign the petitions set forth in front of the Von's market.

I do not want to even think about the continual noise that these planes will make when they are filled with pasengers or cargo when they are landing and taking off all day and even at 4 AM and 11 PM. Because of my disability in needing a good night's sleep, I will be forced to find a way to eliminate this airport which I have done by way of my signing the petition to put a halt to those supervisors who want to cram this project down our throat. Maybe Garden Grove would be a better site for those in North County who really want this airport and those in Los Angeles County who live near the LAX Airport to move since we given the impression they believe living near an airport is so great.
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Subject: Test Noise Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:49:58 -0700 From: > To: <editor>

The test flight north last night at 11:20 was excessive for nighttime tranquillity, and the thought that this is past JWa curfew time is really maddening. Lets try some test flights at that time out of JWA, too!!

Northwood
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Subject: The El Toro Flight test Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 13:46:51 +0100 From: John

I could almost see the whites of the pilots eyes from my bedroom window.

Anybody want to buy a nice house?
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SHOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 15:38:13 -0700 From: To: Leonard Kranser <editor> References: 1

the flight tests have only enraged me!!...up to now I have only given a small amount of money to the Safe and Healthy Initiative. besides promoting the anti-airport cause to others.

I would like to give more and to your site. I will be at a OC Board of Surpervisors this month among other things!

I have the S&H initiative address....where should I send money for your website (IF needed) and ETRPA? I couldn't find an address on their site.
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1999 12:46:51 -0700 From: "Glenn & Sue" > To: <editor>

I say No, No, No.
I am a 41yo 18yr home owner , native Californian, and native local in the flight path, that was hoping to live here forever. The military was not bearable. Now they want to have non-stop flights. NO.

A VOTER: Laguna Niguel, CA 92677
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Subject: Stop the Jets Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 13:02:02 -0700 From: Connie To List

How will we live with the noise and we all know about the crashes. When it can't go into an body of water, who will die? It is obvious the people around the flight path will not only have to deal with the noise, loss of property value, but maybe one day their lives. For once report the truth. The voice of the people needs to be heard, not the fat cats in office. --------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Shocked in Laguna Niguel Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 13:17:31 -0700 To List

xxx Isle Vista Laguna Niguel, CA 92677
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Subject: NO AIRPORT NO AIRPORT NO AIRPORT Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 15:38:13 -0700
What a total scam this whole thing is.

LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE!

I sat down through all the toll roads, I am not allowing this to happen. Never mind the noise which is too loud at my house. The traffic at the El Toro Y, what a joke. The danger and the dirt. We don't need another airport! Chris xxxxLaguna Beach
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Subject: Re: Runway construction Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 16:32:26 -0700 From: Nick To: Len Kranser <editor> References: 1 , 2

Len, This test that the county is conducting does not reflect how real fully loaded aircraft will take off. When I flew KC-130's out of El Toro 20 years ago, we normally used a runway 7 departure. However, when we were at max gross, we took off the safe way...down hill into the prevailing wing. That was a runway 25 departure. This test is a big waste of money, proves nothing and if this does become an airport, I believe that ALPA will demand that runway 25 be the primary departure for safety reasons. Coordination will need to be made with JWA, of course, because there TCA's overlap and that will be cumbersome (unworkable) with so many departures. Answer: close JWA and only use El Toro. Pretty slick!
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Subject: Noise Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 14:57:05 +0000 From: JudyTo: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

How could you support this? I have lived in Orange County my entire life. Have you no mercy for the people who have already bought homes in South Orange County, for the people who located here because of the peaceful, and family-oriented communities. For the people who have invested sizable amounts of money in these communities? And now, PROPERTY VALUES are already going to fall, simply because of these tests. Can you imagine the damage? NO ONE who has listened to the feedback of the unacceptable noise levels from areas like Foothill Ranch, Aliso Viejo, Laguna Hills etc., will EVER want to buy a house out there. What were you thinking? There will be no place left to go in Orange County. The north and central areas are simply dirty, old and uninviting. The only areas that might be acceptable, will be unaffordable to middle-class, family-driven people like me. Orange County was always about being away from the big city mess that Los Angeles is. Where was the need to become another Los Angeles? I hate LA. If I have to go there on business, I charge extra. How could you do this to the people of Laguna Woods? For them this might be the last stop. What were you thinking? Nothing can justify this. NOTHING!
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Subject: NO EL TORO Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 16:59:12 -0700 From: Jay To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org

You've taken the peace and quiet I searched for and found when I moved out to the "boondocks" of Coto. The testing has confirmed without a doubt that the peace of Coto will be lost forever if you open this airport. Between JWA and Ontario which is now very close since the 241 opened, we are more than covered. WE DONT NEED EL TORO!!!
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Subject: El Toro "Air Show" Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:07:08 -0700 From: "Ron Your El Toro "Air Show" continues to irritate me. I just heard the B737-300 set for a 4:50 p.m. arrival come in for a landing. My home is located approximately 2 1/2 miles to the east. The noise was high pitched and EXTREMELY irritating and offensive. To think you want me to listen to 400 of such noise events per day!

What your "Air Show" is proving is that the noise is very disturbing to a path of homes 3 miles wide on each side of centerline. If you get out your Thomas Guide and draw the map, you will find that the vast majority of south county will be severely noise impacted. No amount of money squandered by the majority on the Board of Supervisors is going to convince me otherwise.
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Subject: Another Complaint Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:32:30 EDT From: To: homepage@eltoroairport.org,
Ladies and Gentlemen:

I understand that you are too busy to respond given the response to the flights, but I offer my comments for the file.

According to the press, the aircraft used on Saturday were supposed to be quieter! Quieter, more powerful aircraft, flying unloaded, leaving a smaller noise footprint, not needing to throttle up -- and still, this amount of noise was generated. The only conclusion that I can draw is that this test is a farce. I only hope that the public backlash from this demonstration will backfire in the faces of the airport proponents.
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Subject: El Toro "Demo" Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:35:01 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

Dan xxx Laguna Niguel Ca 92677 949 495 2191
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Thank You for hearing my voice in the matter Sincerely
Subject: El Toro Test Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 18:24:56 -0700
What a waste of taxpayers money. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that jet planes make noise...lots of noise. I measured some of the flights passing overhead in Monarch Terrace near the coast at over 84 DB. They tell us this level is no worse than a vacuum cleaner, but our vacuum cleaner doesn't turn itself on every two minutes night and day. We started to hear each flight one to two minutes before before it passed overhead and then heard them for another minute or two as they passed on towards El Toro. With flights projected for every two minutes we will never be without a some level of roaring noise overhead!!

This "test" should be a real eye opener for everyone in Orange County and a black eye for the Supervisors that are pushing for this disaster.
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Subject: Noise Tests Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 21:55:34 -0400

Sometime between 12 and 12:30 pm this afternoon I heard what I thought was thunder. When I went outside I saw beautiful clear skies and realized that what I had heard was an El Toro test flight! The frightening thing is that I live in Irvine, North of Culver - an area that is well outside the flight pattern and is supposed to be unaffected by El Toro air traffic. If I could clearly hear a small, partially loaded jet where I live, the impact of a fully loaded 777 or DC10 (jets favored for cross-country and international flights) is going to devastate South Orange County.
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Subject: Friday and Saturday flight test Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:58:25 -0700 From:
To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>
Gentlemen:

What a travesty.
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Subject: Flight Demos Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 20:17:55 -0700

So today was the "quiet" day??? I was not at home yesterday to hear the louder tests, but todays' were louder than I want happening on a day-in, day-out basis here. Not only that, but huge jetliners taking off tend to mar the view as well. I recorded a couple of samples (attached), so you can hear what it sounded like here in Foothill Ranch: Subject: I live in the flight path Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:27:33 -0700
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To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>,
I live in Laguna Hills, and as the flight demos occurred, we found that we were closer than we thought. The aircraft came right next to our balcony. You could practically see the pilot in the aircraft.

To Whom It May Concern, is anyone listening!!!!!!!!!!!!! I live in Mission Viejo and not even under the proposed flight paths. The engines rumbles and roars were very noticable even though we are considered not in any type of noise zone. Please don't ruin our tranquil lives. Not only the noise but the pollution will be backed up against the mountains just like Ontario Ca. I know this is big business but what will that be to you when you are gone and others get to suffer with your decision! Sincerely,
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Subject: El Toro Airport Testing Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:48:52 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,

We live in Aliso Viejo and after the two day tet program is complete, all we can say it is far worse than what we expected. The worst offender was the B-747 whih was so loud I could not carry a conversation in my housr without shouting. The mere fact that the county is planning an airport in a populated area with many families who are trying to raise their children, it shows the county supervisors in favor of an airport are going to leave a leagcy that includes runing many people lives and poluting a beautiful part of Orange County.
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Subject: El Toro Flights Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 20:56:41 -0700 From:

To Everyone, We don't want an airport. Thanks for using our tax money to show us that we still don't want an airport!!!!!! An occasional plane coming and going is a far cry from them coming and going all day and night. You must think we are so stupid. I know in my heart you could care less. It is all about MONEY. How sad this world has become.
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Subject: Airport Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 10:39:17 -0400 To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org, amdano@yahoo.com
I live in Laguna Niguel and the noise from the planes reminded me of when I had a cottage across from a SAC Base back in the 60s. It's awful and it means nothing but bad news for most of the residents. I have not heard one good report about the benefits of this airport. Except someone will make a lot of money if it goes through.
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Subject: Test Flights Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 10:52:39 -0700 From: David Flights over Kite Hill in Laguna Niguel were clearly audible- even though we are several miles from the airport. The 747's on Friday were particularly loud and emitted whistling noises. Since the planes were empty, flying at higher than normal altitudes, in glide patterns and only arriving sporadically rather than every two or three minutes, we can only shudder to think what the actual airport scenario would be like.
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Subject: The Noise Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 11:02:14 -0700 From: RKS

I live in Lake Forest in Serrano Park, the tract closest to the proposed airport, and under the takeoff path for the east runway. The test flights this weekend proved many things to me.

I do believe some good will come of this weekend's tests. Many of my neighbors were either unsure or ambivalent above the impact of this airport. Today they have seen and heard the future and are angry and ready to take a stand. If anything, these demonstrations have served as a wake-up call to this community. We have just begun to fight.
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Subject: El Toro Airport Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 21:30:28 -0700 To: List

While sitting in my backyard in RSM I was bombarded with noise on Saturday afternoon. The planes only tested over our area 4 times that day. I can't begin to imagine what it would be like to have them take off every few minutes. PLEASE don't let this airport go in!
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Subject: Comment on El Toro Airport Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:35:37 -0700 From: "Bob I don't even know where to start. The prospect of an International Airport in El Toro is horrific.

Just to list a few concerns:

I realize that there are many people who seem to like living in those kind of areas, and that's fine, but it's going to be a real shame to turn South County into one of them.

It will truly be a shame for South County to become a proverbial "part of L.A."
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Subject: Commercial Test flights 6/4/99 & 6/5/99 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 00:58:13 EDT From:
We live in the southern end of RSM. Every flight was very loud, whether landing or taking off.

This is totally unacceptable. We do not want this airport facility. The noise was loud enough in the night that with our windows opened the noise awoke every member of our family.
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Subject: STOP the sham of the airport Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 22:13:42 -0700 From: Why hasn't the County establish a reliable means to correctly tally all the complaints? I can't imagine the value of a full mailbox!! And the results are probably going to be published as "reliable" statistics. I think I wasn't alone finding it almost impossible to follow the schedule. I think this was specifically part of the demonstration, so anti-airport people will look like crazed by lodging complaints about false departures or arrivals!! There is always small aircraft (and a few larger ones) traffic over Irvine, that one could easily pin it on a schedule test flight, and thus be rebuffed.
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Subject: I won't raise my kids here! Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 23:21:04 -0700 From: Steven

If people move from here they won't go to North County or L.A. they'll leave the state. Property Values will slide, brain power will move and blight and crime will move in. Really, it will. Just drive under the flight path at LAX or any major airport and tell me what you find.
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Subject: Results of El Toro Airport noise demonstration Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 05:44:05 -0700
The noise levels in Northwood (Irvine) on Saturday afternoon were unacceptable. Because we have a noisy neighbor, we have already installed double-pane gas-filled windows and three fountains in our backyard to mask noise. Even with our windows closed and fountains running, we could clearly hear take-offs to the North while watching the Nicks/Pacers game on TV in our family room. This noise level 24 hours per day, 7 days per week would be extremely disruptive and unacceptable. It's the amount of noise that wakes our baby up at night, prevents us from sleeping, and causes our neighborhood to call the police.

Do not build an international airport at El Toro.
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Subject: El Toro Demo Flights Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 20:53:11 -0700 From
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Today I was doing volunteer work in Wood Canyon, a semi-Wilderness area. I go there often as it's a wonderful, relaxing and quiet place for a bike ride or to simply walk.

The proposed El Toro airport is not only a selfish plan, but also is detrimental to the high standards our community school systems currently have and the outstanding results we've archived so far.

Yet, it seems, the majority of the board of supervisors chooses to ignore those they represent -- residents of Orange County.

I experience these blatant actions of the three county supervisors as appalling, revolting, and in my mind clearly dishonest.

I'm angered -- no, outraged -- at the Orange County board of supervisors irresponsible decision to use The People's hard earned tax money to fund the promotion of corporate interests and desires.
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Subject: WEEKEND FLIGHT TESTS Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:02:21 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,
We live in Portola Hills and, although we are completely against an international airport going in at the El Toro Marine Base for many reasons, we were curious about the flight tests scheduled for Friday and Saturday. Now that they have been completed, we find it difficult to make much of an assessment with the sporadiac and light weight tests that were conducted. The reduced load capacity and the frequency of these airplanes certainly would not give an accurate representation of the noise level and amount of planes during a day or night. However, even if the the airport traffic were at the level conducted it would be very disturbing with a constant noise factor that would be irritating. Those of us who located ourselves in a planned community did not select this beautiful area with an International Airport in our back yards in mind. Nor did we, by any stretch of the imagine, think that an International Airport could be railroaded into our backyards by politics!
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Subject: PROTEST Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 09:18:40 -0700 From:

The flight tests made me realize the adverse impact the airport will have on Lake Forest and surrounding communities. I believe many people came to that conclusion June 4 & 5. Have any of the anti-airport organizations made plans for protest??
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Subject: Stop the Airport Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:58:57 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,
Stop the Airport at El Toro!!!!!

STOP THE EL TORO AIRPORT
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Subject: June 4 & 5 airport testing Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:59:11 EDT From:
I live on the lake in Mission Viejo and was startled by the 747 that flew overhead Friday morning at approx. 7:30 am. The plane did not land at El Toro and I could not "see" it but the noise inside my house was deafening. When I called to complain it was hard to get through, but with persistence and much calling around I was told this plane only passed by and did not land. Will future "wave offs" also go over my house? The future for South County is looking dim if this is what the new millennium has to offer.

Also why isn't San Diego looking into this-they don't have an international airport-they need it before anyo
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Subject: Test flights Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 15:12:08 -0700 From: Frank To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org

Yesterday's 747 that passed over my house in Dana Point was much lower than the military jets used to fly. It was loud, and interrupted a phone conversation I was having. This kind of noise every few minutes will be intollerable. We already get the overflights from John Wayne after they circle back to land. It's time for the County to rethink this plan, and look for better alternatives.
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How will we live with the noise and we all know about the crashes. When it can't go into an body of water, who will die? It is obvious the people around the flight path will not only have to deal with the noise, loss of property value, but maybe one day their lives. For once report the truth. The voice of the people needs to be heard, not the fat cats in office.
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Subject: Shocked in Laguna Niguel Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 13:17:31 -0700 From:
My husband and I moved here 3 months ago. We had heard the discussions on El Toro and have kept an open mind.....until these tests. Our home is in Monarch Pointe, on top of a hill right off the ocean. The planes may have been flying at 3000 feet above sea level, but as they approached our community, they were closer to 1000 feet. After Friday afternoon, I went into my house and cried. I could not even hear the person standing next to me. Please, please there has to be a more sane and humane way of approaching our future transportation challenges. I urge you to consider other alternatives. The effects to our cities will be devastating.
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Subject: NO AIRPORT NO AIRPORT NO AIRPORT Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 15:38:13 -0700
What a total scam this whole thing is.

LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE!

I sat down through all the toll roads, I am not allowing this to happen. Never mind the noise which is too loud at my house. The traffic at the El Toro Y, what a joke. The danger and the dirt. We don't need another airport! Laguna Beach
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Subject: Re: Runway construction Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 16:32:26 -0700 From: Nick To: Len Kranser <editor> References: 1 , 2

Len, This test that the county is conducting does not reflect how real fully loaded aircraft will take off. When I flew KC-130's out of El Toro 20 years ago, we normally used a runway 7 departure. However, when we were at max gross, we took off the safe way...down hill into the prevailing wing. That was a runway 25 departure. This test is a big waste of money, proves nothing and if this does become an airport, I believe that ALPA will demand that runway 25 be the primary departure for safety reasons. Coordination will need to be made with JWA, of course, because there TCA's overlap and that will be cumbersome (unworkable) with so many departures. Answer: close JWA and only use El Toro. Pretty slick!
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Subject: Noise Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 14:57:05 +0000 From: Judy

How could you support this? I have lived in Orange County my entire life. Have you no mercy for the people who have already bought homes in South Orange County, for the people who located here because of the peaceful, and family-oriented communities. For the people who have invested sizable amounts of money in these communities? And now, PROPERTY VALUES are already going to fall, simply because of these tests. Can you imagine the damage? NO ONE who has listened to the feedback of the unacceptable noise levels from areas like Foothill Ranch, Aliso Viejo, Laguna Hills etc., will EVER want to buy a house out there. What were you thinking? There will be no place left to go in Orange County. The north and central areas are simply dirty, old and uninviting. The only areas that might be acceptable, will be unaffordable to middle-class, family-driven people like me. Orange County was always about being away from the big city mess that Los Angeles is. Where was the need to become another Los Angeles? I hate LA. If I have to go there on business, I charge extra. How could you do this to the people of Laguna Woods? For them this might be the last stop. What were you thinking? Nothing can justify this. NOTHING!
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Subject: NO EL TORO Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 16:59:12 -0700 From> To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,
You've taken the peace and quiet I searched for and found when I moved out to the "boondocks" of Coto. The testing has confirmed without a doubt that the peace of Coto will be lost forever if you open this airport. Between JWA and Ontario which is now very close since the 241 opened, we are more than covered. WE DONT NEED EL TORO!!!
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Subject: Another Complaint Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:32:30 EDT From: To: homepage@eltoroairport.org,

I understand that you are too busy to respond given the response to the flights, but I offer my comments for the file.

According to the press, the aircraft used on Saturday were supposed to be quieter! Quieter, more powerful aircraft, flying unloaded, leaving a smaller noise footprint, not needing to throttle up -- and still, this amount of noise was generated. The only conclusion that I can draw is that this test is a farce. I only hope that the public backlash from this demonstration will backfire in the faces of the airport proponents.
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Subject: Airport News Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:21:21 EDT From: To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org,
Dear OC Board of Supervisors

Thank You for hearing my voice in the matter Sincerely Sue xxx
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:58:25 -0700 From: "Michael To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>Gentlemen:

What a travesty.
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Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 20:56:41 -0700

The El Toro Test Flights were a farce for another reason. The weather was particularly cool which gives much more lift to the wings and with greater moisture content more efficiency in the engines so the aircraft were much higher than they would have been in the hot summertime with a wind off the ocean.
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Subject: El Toro Airporrt Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 21:09:29 -0700 FromTo Everyone, We don't want an airport. Thanks for using our tax money to show us that we still don't want an airport!!!!!! An occasional plane coming and going is a far cry from them coming and going all day and night. You must think we are so stupid. I know in my heart you could care less. It is all about MONEY. How sad this world has become.
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Subject: Airport Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 10:39:17 -0400 To: Homepage@eltoroairport.org, I live in Laguna Niguel and the noise from the planes reminded me of when I had a cottage across from a SAC Base back in the 60s. It's awful and it means nothing but bad news for most of the residents. I have not heard one good report about the benefits of this airport. Except someone will make a lot of money if it goes through.
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Subject: June 5th Flights Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:12:45 -0700 From: "Tom

Here is a copy of a letter I sent to the Supervisors, since I can't be heard on their poorly planned voice mail systems. I thought you can use it as well? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- Dear Supervisors, Again, I have tried to call and lodge a complaint, but the mail box is full, (714) 834-3000 and (949) 252-5186, this is absurd.

I would like to log a formal complaint as to the unavailability of the leaving a complaint to be tallied by an independent party and mailboxes being full. It does not seem to me you are interested in the complaints and have not made proper arrangements to hear any complaints. This seems typical of the poor planning for this fiasco.

I also would like to formally log a complaint on a Flight on June 5 at 12:00pm and at 12:14pm over Portola Hills, it was extremely noisy and much to low! This will simply ruin the quality of life here, lower property values and jeopardize the health and welfare of our children.

It is amazing to me that you have no monitoring station at Portola Elementary School, why? Scared of the results? This is a major problem for our students and should be studied.

I also find it amazing that you are flying the quieter aircraft today (June 5)and depriving the residents of a true idea of the noise problems, as well as the complete inaccuracy of your website and the flight times, why is this? More poor planning. Do you think that the aircraft flying today is representative of the type of aircraft that will be flying out of this airport? Did not think so. Why are you not flying more 747 or 767's? Exactly, more people are home today and it would really be a problem for your planning process to shove this airport down the throats of the residents of South O.C.

Please, use JWA to it's potential. We have enough airports in So. Cal to meet the demand. Lift the artificial limits at JWA . Don't turn So. Orange County into a Polluted, undesirable area. Please THINK, what has helped South O.C. to prosper? Open Space, Clean Air, Quiet and Safe neighborhoods and a quality of life that the people here desire. Don't ruin that. Support the Millenium Plan, it offers the virtues of what has made OC a growing, thriving area.

Thank you for your consideration,
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Subject: FW: WE DON'T WANT THIS AIRPORT!!!!!!!! Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:20:46 -0700 From: "fred > To: <Homepage@eltoroairport.org>

I am writing you to complain about the unacceptable noise generated from Saturdays test. I was out all day Friday, however I have heard that noise was even worse yesterday.

I bought my house in Lake Forest about a year ago and soon after started hearing about the proposed airport. My neighborhood is usually very quiet. However today I feel like I am living next door to LAX. I tried to call the airport planning office to complain, however their voice mail is full.

All I can say is this. If Orange county is stupid enough to build a busy airport here, I will likely sell my house and move out of the area. I will loose a lot of my investment moving out so early however, I will not sacrifice my quality of life or that of my family. County officials that support the idea of an airport, you should be ashamed of yourselves for wrecking this quiet community if an airport goes in. I hope Silva and other airport supports are kicked out of office and airport planners are sued. You are a public disgrace to this community and it is obviously that pro-airport people are only in this for the money. Quit now before you waste more of our tax dollars on projects that the community does not want, or face the lawsuits your are awaiting by going ahead with this plan.

Actually the test today was probably a good idea, I am sure it will gain public awareness of really how much everyone will be really pissed off by having a noisy airport on our doorsteps.

Come up with a better plan, this one will never fly!
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Subject: noise complaint Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 14:37:39 EDT From: Kaminpour@aol.com To: coalition@eltoroairport.org

I have tried to log a noise complaint regarding the slight demonstration. The phone number that has been provided is full of messages and I have tried to find the complaint section on the web page www.eltorofacts.org. There are no places to log a complaint. As always evrrything is one sided. The people involved don't want the voice of airport opponents to be heard. What a crock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My name and address is as follows;

xxxxxx Dana Point, CA 92629
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Subject: 11:01 Flight at 11:55 - East over Melinda Heights, RSM Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 12:11:35 -0700 From: "Carol To: <editor>

The scheduled Saturday 11:01 flight just flew DIRECTLY over our house in the Melinda Heights area of RSM at 11:55. It was very loud, and we could see a long trail of black following the plane. I suppose this will be the polution that settles on our cars and outdoor furniture in the future. We could not sell our house with all the taxes, Mello Roos, and association fees amouting to about $5,000 a year if prospective buyers saw what we just saw going over our house. I just hope and pray that the airport doesn't happen. Even if the flight paths are changed and the planes end up not going over our house, they will be going over other people's houses and the general area will be covered with black jet fuel.
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Subject: El Toro Airport Demo Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 12:11:47 -0700 From: "Roger Having lived in South Orange County since 1985, I have enjoyed the quality of life that I have come to expect from a well-planned and affluent community. The El Toro Marine Base has been a part of my experience since my move here, but in no way made me want to seek residence elsewhere. The reason behind my choice to co-reside with a Marine Base was based on the aircraft usage characteristics and associated curfews (yes, curfews were waived in times of political unrest and this was acceptable). Specifically the military aircraft would exhibit "clustered" activity that lasted for a short-duration followed by silence. Rarely were military flight activities noted after 10PM nor on weekends.

Currently I reside in Aliso Viejo on a ridgeline that is adjacent to Laguna Beach's "Top-of-the-World" and Laguna Niguel. Having experienced Friday's commercial flight demonstrations, I was very surprised by the results and following are my observations: 1) The commercial aircraft were much lower than the military aircraft. 2) The commercial aircraft were much slower than the military aircraft. The actual tires were visible on the planes without wheel well coverings. 3) The commercial aircraft were quiet as they approached, but sound greatly intensified once overhead and while moving away. 4) The 747 and 767 exhibited unacceptable sound levels. 5) The smaller and newer 737 and A300 were not too obtrusive sound-wise, but still disruptive and ominous in appearance.

Another alarming fact is that these planes will actually be louder during normal operation as Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) mode is used. Visual Flight Rules (VFR) mode was used during the demonstrations resulting in quieter operations especially with landings. Additionally, the demonstration included a partial compliment of aircraft types with partial payloads flying in ideal weather conditions.

If airport development continues to proceed as planned, then my concern level will escalate exponentially. The demonstration experience has shifted my concerns FROM my property value TO my quality of life. Knowing the proposed operation characteristics of the proposed El Toro International Airport, the types of aircraft planned, and my perception during the demonstrations, I cannot co-reside with this airport. Although controversial, the demonstrations have proven valuable to me in that the experience was REAL and MUCH worse than I expected (much louder and lower than expected).

Lastly, it was surprising how widely spread the impact was after having discussions with peers and friends throughout South Orange County. In my discussions, it appears that almost every South County City has seen and heard a jet overhead (again lower than expected), thus making South Orange County no longer a very attractive place to live.

After the commercial aircraft flight demonstrations, the El Toro Airport conversion is no longer a property value issue, but quality of life issue!!
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Subject: Test flights Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 12:44:19 -0700 From
Jason xxxxx Lake Forest CA 92630

At 12:12 on June 5th a plane literally shook my house as it went over head. Please change plans or flight paths!!!!!!!

A very upset resident of Lake Forest.
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Subject: Test flights Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 11:23:31 -0700 From:

As Fridays date for test flights approached, I could not have imagined how horrible its reality would truly be.